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Michigan calls for more carp poisoning

June 24, 2010 at 01:25 PM

DETROIT (AP) - U.S. Sen. Debbie Stabenow says the area where an Asian carp was found for the first time beyond electric barriers meant to keep the voracious fish out of the Great Lakes should be poisoned.

The Michigan Democrat on Thursday reiterated her call for a permanent separation of waterways linking the Mississippi River and the Great Lakes.

She says she’s working on legislation to require the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to swiftly create a separation plan.

Messages were left with the Corps of Engineers and the Illinois Department of Natural Resources.

Officials announced Wednesday the fish was caught in Lake Calumet on Chicago’s South Side, about six miles from
Lake Michigan. Electrofishing and netting were planned remove any Asian carp.

Your CommentsComments :: Terms :: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Michigan needs to bring lots of money$$$, if they want an Illinois politician to respond quickly, if at all.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/24 at 04:25 PM

Dear Debbie and other politicians that have no idea what they are talking about or dealing with, poisioning these areas will not keep the carp out.there are alot more other important things to worry about than dumping more millions of dollars into something that doesnt work. the carp will make it into the lake via human transfer or natural transfer in only a matter of time, if you would of thought about this 10 years ago when everyone warned you from the southern states that got invaded then maybe some prevention would have worked. you cant put a band-aid on a compound fracture! do a little research on the asian carp and you will find out some amazing things, they have a super high reproduction rate and they will continue to migrate north as they are a cold water fish, so poisioning a few miles of river will not stop them from coming into the great lakes because they are 1 billion waiting in the illinois, mississippi and every other river in the midwest. its these type of knee jerk reactions with no thought out planning that makes this countrys political system a mess, its almost as if the common man has more common sense than a politician!

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/24 at 04:50 PM

murdy- the bottom line is that you would have to poison the targeted waters every week, not just once to stop the asian carp from reaching the great lakes, this just is not plausible. i understand trying to save the great lakes 7 billion dollar a year fishery but with all the tributaries that feed into the great lakes, they are bound to reach sometime. i want them all gone as bad as anyone else, but there are other methods that would be more effective.there are so many tributaries to the great lakes that they are going to get into the lake system somehow.EACH FEMALE SILVER AND BIG HEAD CARP WILL LAY BETWEEN 207,083 to 1,610,440 EGGS PER YEAR….. THATS PER YEAR. with very small numbers of predation and a even a low 50 percent survival rate you figure the numbers if 10 females enter the great lakes system. PLEASE PEOPLE (or politicians) try and EDUCATE YOURSELVES on this topic before making “knee jerk” reactions and then figure out a proper way to prevent or reduce their numbers! poisoning a single entrance into the great lakes 1 or 2 times will not do you any good!!!

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/25 at 12:26 AM

i have eye-witnessed them take over 2 large river systems (mississippi and kaskaskia) in less than 5 years, going from seeing a few to a few hundred thousand of them in both river systems. they also have entered countless smaller feeder creeks and many other backwater areas and have done the same. i dont believe the people pulling the strings know the capabilities of this fish and how fast they can multiply. so unless you poison every single small creek that feeds to and from any great lake, this plan will not work. take my advice for what it is worth,i am just telling you what i have witnessed with my own eyes, not from reading articles!

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/25 at 12:32 AM

Check out the youtube video at  Senator Stabenow has posted. It is worth the watch. Looks like an infomercial! No one on the floor of the Senate at all, her up there reading a prepared text. You would swear you could substitute Russian troops or Red Chinese invaders for carp. Her speech writer had to have copied one of Winston Churchill’s speeches and crossed out Germans and inserted carp. “The evil horde is coming across the border”

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/25 at 08:56 AM

murdy- the Mississippi is not an “open natural river” either is the Ohio or illinois, they have bypassed many lock and dam areas with ease. they will go ahead with the plan anyways, it will not work, and send me an email in 5 years telling me how fun it is to catch asian carp off the lakefront instead of yellow perch and salmon! you might shut one way in off, they will just find another. its just a shame to me that all of a sudden they want to “fix” this problem once it gets close to “their waters with a 7 billion dollar industry”, but they have let the Mississippi, Ohio, Kaskaskia, Illinois and other major rivers get out of hand with no plan or carp committe to help you think those rivers listed dont have important big dollar industries that will be affected either? if they would have given the same amount of attention to them, they never would have reached even close to the great lakes, but with most politicians and bills passed, a day late and a dollar short. i would love to keep them out of the great lakes, but the great lakes fishing industries mean no more than the ‘sippi, illinois or ohio to me and many others. sometimes when you wait till a problem reaches your front door, its too late to do anything about it, a little prevention will go a long way in the future!

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/25 at 01:23 PM

asian carp eat photo/zoo plankton, there is plenty of that everywhere

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/26 at 01:06 PM

Josh, I think you meant to say phytoplankton in your statement, not photoplankton.  Captain Bill is saying the population of plankton is significantly less in the Great Lakes compared to other water bodies where Asian Carp are found in IL.  Adult Asian Carp can consume up to 40 to 60+ pounds of plankton per day depending on their size and the time of year. That quantity of plankton doesn’t exist in the clear, deep blue waters of the Great Lakes to support the millions of Asian Carp that are present in our part of the state.  The worst case scenario is if/when the Asian Carp would get into the Great Lake system in large enough populations and find enough plankton to survive for whatever duration it may take them to find other tributaries.  Most of those tributaries would contain higher plankton populations to support Asian Carp for establishment and to allow them to continue their migration. If and when that happens is a question that no one knows at this time. 

I read comments on acceptable and unacceptable snagging methods in the Kaskaskia River, below Carlyle Lake, from the other Asian Carp story.  Be careful with any type of snagging method you attempt in the Kaskaskia River.  If you make hard jerks with a rod and reel with spoons, musky baits, or big treble hooks tied on, that is considered a form of snagging.  The Corps of Engineers and other federal, state and local agencies received Homeland Security funding several years ago to purchase security devices.  There are very small, high definition cameras installed on the dam and at other areas around Carlyle Lake to monitor illegal activities that might jeopardize the structural integrity of the dam and water supply poisoning activities.  The local game wardens periodically use the cameras to watch for individuals breaking local game and fish laws, including snagging.  The individual’s intent may be to snag Asian Carp, but there’s a good chance other rough fish or game fish will be snagged.  Rick and Jennifer will make the decision to issue a citation with their CPO authority based on what they see on the cameras or while watching from the spillway.  We all want to see the Asian Carp thinned out, but I wouldn’t chance using the snagging methods you described.  I’d be willing to bet it will lead to a ticket.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/27 at 10:32 AM

Bill, you posted comments while I was typing and addressing some of the same things… didn’t mean to be redundant.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/27 at 10:35 AM

ranger and captain- sorry for the misspellings, ranger- all CPO’s are aware of this method and its not breaking the law ,as you said, as long as you dont rear back and rip the spoon through the water. all of these methods are CPO approved as rick and jennifer have come down many a times and visit.i have never received any type of violation in my life and dont plan on breaking the law wich is my profession as well. i usually fish with a retired carlyle area cpo and i assure you all methods are approved. i am also aware of the dam mounted cameras, they must not watch them too often though as everytime i go i see someone fishing with a bare treble hook and weight hooked to either a stick or a soda bottle and then they throw it into the river if anyone law enforcement approaches. if either one of you would like to come see the methods first hand instead of judging them over the internet, shoot me an email and i would be more than glad to take you for the amount of zoo/phytoplanktons availible in lake michigan it seems as if there is plenty to support asian carp. sort through the charts and numbers if your interested. compared to kaskaskia and mississipi river numbers they are lower, but not too far off and sufficient enough in my opinion to support the asian carp. i guess only time will tell.

and ***CAPTAIN BILL*** its spelled planktons not “palnktons” if were gonna worry about every misspelling. i dont know why your taking shots telling me to “before i help get my facts straight/right” when alls im doing is offering my opinion, if you dont like it dont read my comments.i would be willing to bet i have a little more hands on experience with the asian carp than yourself.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/27 at 10:08 PM

i agree with your statements murdy, well put, i also hope we never find out! just because the water is clear doesnt mean its void of plankton’s.  the ocean is pretty clear and you can ask the whale shark and countless other species (whales, fish etc..) if there is any plankton floating around in its clear water.”“”“I have great fear of the adaptability of this very invasive species”“” i would also agree with that statement, it is one that the captain and many others are doing. i dont think anyone predicted them making it up as far as they have if you go back to the flood in the early 90’s and asked anyone.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/28 at 12:01 PM

Josh, I’m not judging or challenging your method.  I’m all for folks having fun using legal methods to catch Asian Carp with tackle that doesn’t increase the chance of foul hooking species such as catfish, spoonbill and other game fish.  I didn’t want readers unfamiliar with using a spoon or artificial bait with large treble hooks to think its OK to whale back on their rod and reel based on the various comments that others made or if they see another fishermen illegally snagging.  That would result in a citation.

Unfortunately, many Asian Carp previously inhabiting the Mississippi River are currently entering the Kaskaskia River.  The Kaskaskia Lock near the Mississippi River confluence will remain in the open river position until the Mississippi River flood waters recede and the lock can return to normal operating conditions.  We were seeing increased recruitment and sustained populations of game fish from our stocking program during annual electroshocking surveys.  Native and stocked young of the year species will have a hard time competing for plankton with the new Asian Carp populations entering the watershed.  There was actually a slow decline in the Asian Carp population in the lower portion of the Kaskaskia River for several consecutive non-flood years.  With limited research we don’t have a conclusive reason for the previous Asian Carp population decline.  We assume they continued their migration upstream after they depleted plankton populations in the artificial pool setting found from the Kaskaskia Lock to the Evansville, IL headcut structure.  Plankton trawl samples indicated depleted populations after flood events introduced more Asian Carp from the Mississippi River.  After several non-flood years, plankton supply gradually recovered as Asian Carp populations declined in the lower river.  Higher Asian Carp population was found near the Carlyle Lake spillway in consecutive non-flood years when the Kaskaskia Lock remained closed, except for occasional commercial and recreation vessel lockage.  The data is interesting, but the uncontrolled Asian Carp cycle is frustrating.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/28 at 09:19 PM

Both sides of this arguement probably have some validity. If you look at the three species of Buffalo which have similar feeding habits as Asians, all three are found in all of rivers of the states that border the Great Lakes. All three species are found in the Great Lakes. However, their populations within the Great Lakes are small and localized. Despite all the water available in the Great lakes, they have not thrived or overpopulated. Now could the Asians fill niche habitats in the Great Lakes such as river deltas, bays, marshes…..? That is more likely, but it will be in limited areas. I don’t believe, that based upon the Buffalo that they will be found in open waters of the lakes, or that they will populate a high percentage of the waters. Now this projection is not the result of any multi- million dollar study and it is not endorsed by a Task Force. It is simply a common sense look as what history has already shown us.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/29 at 07:03 AM

I have a few questions/comments that maybe someone can answer. I believe I read an article on PSO last year stating that some of the Walleye fisherman on the IL. River thought the fish were tasting better than in past years due to the fish feeding on small asian carp rather than on shad since the shad numbers were down? If so, has any studies been done on any type of game fish that feeds on the small carp more than any other game fish? If something fed on the little one’s wouldn’t it make sense to start stocking the rivers with something that would help keep the numbers down. Kind of like how the Smallmouth started feeding on the Goby in Lake Michigan. Also, with the Zebra Mussel problem the Great Lakes are having, don’t the Zebra Mussel clean the water to? Do they remove bacteria or the Plankton that you guys are talking about? Or would they even effect each other?

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/30 at 12:13 PM

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