Wisconsin reaches CWD deal with Illinois

After some of the things I have been told from Wi hunters on how their state handles things (CWD) I’m not so sure this is a good thing.
The sharing info & research is good but no so sure about the heard reduction part.

The DNR will screw up a wet dream!

I agree, S.IL.  It looks like they may be using CWD as yet another excuse/reason to cut our herd down.  They always seem to treat a problem with a nuke.  There’s a criminal loose in the city, better nuke the whole city to make sure we get him.  I’ve done quite a bit of reading about CWD the last several years and the responses concern me as much, or more, than the actual problem.  I’ve had heard some experts say that feeding deer has no effect on CWD since deer are herd animals anyway and spend fair amounts of time licking each other, eating off the same corn cob, etc.  Why not target the sick animals specifically?  Or at least target the sick areas specifically.  A statewide herd reduction would do absolutely nothing to help curb CWD.  How would herd reduction in Peoria, Knox, Fulton…help reduce CWD?  This is more of a WI problem than anything.  They are the ones who severely limited permits to its own residents, as well as us FIPS.  If hunters have one bow tag and one gun tag, you really think most of those hunters are going to shoot the sick deer that comes by their stand when they’d rather wait for a good, healthy looking deer?  Not likely.  Had WI issued more permits to its own residents years and years ago, the hunters would have been in a much better position to eliminate or slow down CWD.  Once WI had the problem, they acted frantically wanting all hunters to kill everything in sight, healthy or not.  Sharing information is great.  It’s a good idea.  But I’d like to see IL handle IL’s problem on its own with its own decisions and resources….us hunters.

Doctors use dogs to sniff out disease in humans.  Wolves do the same thing on deer…
—
After hundreds of thousands of generations and from respectable distances, wolves know a “sick” deer when the see one…because of the behavior that sick animal displays.
—
Wolves can also smell the chemical signatures of “sickness” in deer.
—
Wolves have developed these skills…because being able to distinguish between healthy and sick deer increases the wolf’s probability of making a kill.
-
Note to DNR…“Evolution and Ecology RULE!”

What happens if the wolves migrate to areas not affected by CWD?  Do they starve to death or eat healthy deer?

The only way the DNR can dramatically reduce the herd in IL is if all of us hunters shoot more does.  It will really be the hunters choice to reduce the herd.  Everyone should keep that in mind this fall before you shoot more than what you can eat.

We all know the answer to that question…but for a moment, let’s focus on wolf ecology and try to avoid wolf politics.
—
The ecology is straight-forward and it works…more efficiently, more selectively and for less cost than any human designed system ever has or could.

More efficiently?  For less money?  Really?

Yeah, Tree…Really…
—
You see, when you focus on the ecology and stay away from the politics…you get the best answer for how to control something like CWD.
—
Show me a place where CWD is prevalent in an area where wolves have been present without interruption.
—
Just to save you some time…that place doesn’t exist.

Spoon, not looking for an argument.  Just seems to me that humans have a much greater ability to be “selective” than wolves do.  I have nothing against wolves, I just don’t think Illinois is the best place for them.  We are too populated in my opinion.

Tree…Unless the deer is staggering around, I don’t believe that the vast majority of hunters can tell a sick deer from a healthy deer by just looking at them.  That’s why CWD control efforts have, what amounts to, a virtual shoot on sight policy for deer.
—
Trying to manage CWD by harvesting deer only during regular hunting seasons virtually guarantees the presence of infected, contagious animals during the months where hunting season is closed.
—
Unlike people, wolves are on the job 24/7, doing for free what the state is going to spend millions to try and accomplish…and if past CWD control efforts are any indication, the results won’t be entirely satisfactory.

I totally agree regarding hunting seasons vs. 24/7.  The only issues I have are the incidental migration into areas I don’t think they should be and the fact that wolves are predatory and opportunists.  Establish a pack in Illinois and I guarantee a few eaten pets and calves.

Let’s be clear about this…
—
IDNR and the Feds should admit that wolves are present in Illinois and, by law, they should be cooperating to protect this endangered species.
—
The CWD control money saved by these wolf populations should be redirected into livestock depredation reimbursements and an Illinois wolf management program.
—
Yes, there will be adjustments downward in hunting permits, but in a state where there is currently an unlimited supply of doe permits, giving each pack of wolves even 100 deer/year (some of them sick) is hardly going to be noticed.

Nature is not insane.

Wolves—Sounds like a great idea; its really worked exceptionally well where they were reintroduced out west.  NOT. 

Wolves are the perfect ammunition for the anti’s.  Put enough wolves in one spot and there will be no game left to hunt; effectively killing our sport. Easier and cheaper to reintroduce wolves than to fight the second amendment.

How’s that?  Look at Wisconsin.  How is slaughtering a deer herd in response to CWD not “man messing with nature”?  By definition and in practice…that’s insane.
—
How could any human CWD control efforts be more ecologically acceptable, more manageable and less costly than the natural relationship between wolves and deer which keeps CWD disease in check?

Buck…Out west, they stock cattle at a rate of one cow/40 acres and more.  Here in Illinois, the stocking rate is one cow/acre. 
—
The enormous number of deer in certain locations of this state, like the Spoon River watershed, attest to the productivity of our land and it’s deer population.
—
Over the long haul, human efforts to control CWD will kill and waste many more deer than wolves ever could.

Murdy…just looking at 100 deer/pack/year is not the entire story.
—
The taking of just one sick animal before it can infect others plays a huge role in controlling disease.  Over time, each sick deer eliminated by wolves has the effect of preventing the infection from spreading to hundreds of other animals across many square miles.

I think we should get Mayor Daley to solve the CWD problem.

in idaho the wolves they reintroduced are doing so well, they had a wolf season, last year they wanted to kill over 200 wolves, they maybe killed 100, its great to bring stuff back but then we have to keep managing them!! wolves arent the answer for illinois… illinois spent $90,000 on cwd last year, we have had 10? cases all northern ill! we need to keep it contained! it seems like it is for now?!. if we spent that $90,000 on managing the herd it would help contain cwd.

Captain Bill- While it is true that deer are very interactive animals within their social group ( sniff/lick/nuzzle ), that same activity does not take place often outside the maternal social group. It is an activity that is mainly confined to the matriach doe and her offspring. This activity could transmit disease within the social group- but would seldom do it outside the group. A strange doe comes to the group and tries to take a sniff and she is going to get a hoof upside her head. Bucks will take a sniff of each other but the licking and nuzzle behavior which is a mode of transmission, is not that common. 

Same way with the feeding issue. I think that the chance of disease transmission from scattered grain is significantly reduced as compared to salt or mineral licks. The prion that causes CWD is tough and can survive quite well in a salt type or other adverse environment. Salt licks and mineral licks will be used by deer from many different social groups, thus the potential is much greater to spread disease to a far greater population and more diverse one than scattered grain. They also have the potential to spread CWD to a wider population than social group intra action.

Think of it as your kid catches a cold. Just like the deer family can catch what other family members have- the kid spreads the cold to everyone in the house. Send him to the daycare and all the kids catch it and take it home to their family group. Salt and mineral licks are deer daycares. To me though scattered grain is more like sending the sick kid to the park to play- another kid is going to have to touch the same rung on the slide to get the germs. The odds are not nearly that high.

Having some experience with CWD, I suggest anyone concerned can start looking here for info.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/cwd/

or

http://www.cwd-info.org/

Bret

...crazy conspiracy alert…

I think the anti hunting movement has a too powerful weapon with the endangered species act.

When enough wolves exist the deer population will be low enough that deer become endangered.  Once that happens…No shooting wolves or deer.  Now that’s a plan the anti’s could go for.

Politics is everything now.  Those who get elected/appointed for office and judges decide way too much in my opinion.