Stiffer laws for poachers needed

Great idea, Jim.  The only problem is enforcement.  In my area, you can catch a trespasser with a gun or a bow, call the game warden, and see nothing happen at all.  I agree with increasing punishment, but I think it all starts with enforcement.  If game wardens do not respond to your call, the idea of punishment is mute.  I once blocked a truck on my property and called the county cops on the mushroom hunters trespassing and stealing my mushrooms only to be told that I could not rightfully block the truck from exiting my property because it’s a form of imprisonment.  The shroomers actually walked up to both me and the cop with no look of fear at all.  The cop told them to leave and told me to never block their truck again.  Enforcement is what I believe the problem is.

I agree with treehuger. It’s a worthless effort when you can’t enforce the current laws. These deer are getting poached now, more than ever and it seems like nobody cares. Who knows, maybe it’s what they want? After all, it will decrease the deer related accidents.

The DNR is way to top heavy to do anything meaningfull for enforcement. Just talk to a consevation officer and see what kind of area he covers and how many of them there are to cover the area, you will be shocked.
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While I’m no fan of tresspassing and I know know not much does happen to people that do it, I’m sure if a cpo caught a poacher he would act, its just catching them thats the problem, to few in a large area.
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Tree my suggestion is make sure and get plate numbers, vehicle description ect when you run them off, might be easier to get the police to act if the person has repetedly been caught.

I actually caught what I thought was a poacher several years ago in Peoria County at about 8am on the first Saturday of gun season.  Found a guy walking my property in full camo.  I snuck down from my stand and scared the living daylights out of this clown.  Turns out the clown was actually the game warden walking everyone’s private timber to check tags…wearing camo like an idiot.  I’m sure a few of you know who I’m talking about.  When I told him he was going to get himself shot walking around thick timber in camo he told me that any hunter that mistakes him for a deer is an idiot.  Thankfully that guy is no longer employed by our state.  I haven’t had any other run-ins with a game warden but I hope they’re all a bit better than this guy was and I hope they’re on the side of property owners.

I wonder if most of the trespassing is at night.  The Charles Bronson approach works. Most folks carry spare tires so make sure you take out two or more.  Valve stems are easy to remove or loosen.  I know nothing!

Dave you aint no better then a poacher talking like that .

Not long ago, they use to hang horse and cattle rustlers…seemed to be a good deterrent. Now we just talk about things, hold committees, and worry.  Wasn’t Illinois going to increase the fines for tresspassing to $5,000 minimum?...wonder what happened to that proposal…

I had a farm surveyor walk 10 yards from my stand last season while I was bowhunting.  When I asked why the hell he was on my property he said “it looked like easier walking.”  Called the farmer who hired him, who is a friend of mine, and he was promptly fired.

your deer? did you create these deer.WOWWWWWWW

Treehugger, I remember that former Peoria County warden who did that crazy stuff all the time.  He was a nut, great warden, but a nut.

His deer?? If he is paying for his hunting tag, they are his deer and mine and yours. That is why we need to find a way to protect OUR resource.

Treehugger :  You are barking up the wrong tree.
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  The problem isnt enforcing, it is State budget and staffing. They get a lot of calls for being spread so thin, and can only be ONE place at a time.  For being as under staffed as the CPOs are, all the ones that I know are actually extremely productive.

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And your criticism of their wearing Camo is a little unwarranted.  Anyone who calls themselves a hunter, knows you dont just take blind shots into the bushes when you see them moving. And for anyone who does do that, it doesnt matter if they are in camo OR their Uniform… they obviously couldnt see what it was anyways.
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Just like the Hunters, the CPOs want to go undetected

i was arrested for illegal spotlighting from vehicle and poaching about 5 years ago. my punishment wasnt steep at all, i fully agree with wanting stiffer laws for poachers.

YES…The DNR in my area couldn’t solve a crime if their life depended on it. And than they hassle law abiding citizens. YOU NEED PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY’RE DOING!...I’ve helped them on several occasions and it ended with a bad bad taste in my mouth!

we had a problem in our area were teenagers were shooting deer with a rifle. they did shoot quite a bit(at least 20) and all they got was $1100 fine out of it. my self it should have been per deer

treehugger… The last time I checked (I don’t have time at the present to re-check), by law, farmers working in their fields are the ONLY people exempt from the blaze orange requirements while in the field/timber during the gun seasons (it doesn’t matter if you’re hunting or not).  I know this was true at one time.  Years ago, that particular warden tried to pinch my hunting party for petty things.  My dad informed him that he can’t do squat (there was a state’s attorney with him).  The warden and state’s attorney introduced themselves as other people - entrapment (they actually came into our hunt claiming to be lost) and were not wearing blaze orange.  The state’s attorney said “He’s right.”  So we sent them on their merry way.
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I 100% agree with the enforcement problem.  With the way it’s set up now, it’s WAY TOO EASY to get away with poaching.  If I take care of my own meat, I can shoot anything I want and check it in as a doe (if it’s checked in at all) and who would know any better.  Even if I take meat to the butcher, I can shoot a small buck, check it in as a doe, skin it while still in the field, and take it to the butcher.  Again, who’s to know.  I would think that in a state known for the big bucks, the laws and checking procedures would be more strict.

banerbird- only people hunting or in a hunting party need to wear blaze orange during firearm season! duck hunters are exempt also!

baldwalnut… sorry, i forgot about the duck hunters.  where did you find the wording for the blaze orange requirements?  Not stirring the pot, just curious.

As many permits these days a person can aquire there is no reason for poaching so a hefty fine would be required, first time or not.

Bobba…Anyone walking around the woods during gun season wearing camo has a death wish and is stupid to boot.  I’m not worried about anyone pulling the trigger on a brown image in the woods, I’m worried about a guy hunting from the ground and taking a shot at a deer, missing, and hitting the idiot wearing tree-like camo 150 yards directly behind the deer.  The idiot that was trespassing my woods was out simply checking tags…hardly a good excuse to ruin my hunt without any probable cause.  The guy was stupid, plain and simple.
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Also, I agree that we do not have enough game wardens to enforce laws.  Though I didn’t articulate that, that is what I meant.  We do have to worry about who the state hires though.  Some of these guys are not very hunter friendly.  The idiot I spoke of once stuck a gun in the back of my neck because I was watching deer in a field with the headlights of my truck.  Pulling me over and asking questions is fine, but sticking a gun in my neck and tearing my truck apart is nuts and unwarranted.  I’m sure if his gun would have went off on accident he would have had a bunch of lies to tell my family about me to cover his ass.  Just saying we need to really pay attention as to who gets the job…not that the state will ever provide enough wardens anyway.

Agree Murdy.  But as I was told by a certain idiot from Peoria County, they have way more power than a traditional cop.  He claimed, the time he stuck a gun in my neck and tore my truck apart, that he could go into my house if he wanted without a search warrant to check for illigal deer that I may have.  If this is true, and I believe it is, it’s ridiculous.  No one needs that kind of power.  Give someone a gun and a badge and….  I don’t even think he had any business walking my property to check me for tags.  He ruined my hunt without any cause at all.  I have always hunted legally.  I have no reason to hunt illegally.  By the way, he had to walk two miles down railroad tracks to get to my timber.  He had no idea I was even back there.  He was just wandering around checking everyone and ruining their hunts.  Check people at their trucks, not in their stands unless you know something.

@illinoisbonecollector deer are free to roam they dont just live on “your property” . The only way they would truly be your deer is if you owned land with a high fence . which would probably be your preferred way to hunt.

i agree with jsmiff79 no body owns the deer the deer own themselves, and they are free to roam wherever they please. no one controls the deer or where they go, but poachers and other a-holes sneak onto property and kill deer illegally which is the main concern not who may think they own deer!

MURDY2020 wrote;
“Most states give Game Wardens the powers of the police by statute, but they don’t give them near the training on law enforcement that the police get.”
Wrong.
Requirements for the job include 3 years experience as a police officer, or successful certification as a police officer PLUS 400 hours of CPO Academy training.
Most CPO’s were police officers in some other jurisdiction before becoming a CPO.

Scroll down to Eligibility Requirements:
http://dnr.state.il.us/law3/career.htm#eligibility

These guys have a tough job, made tougher by the ignorances of the people they deal with, and they do a good job for the most part.

Tree, that is NOT true they DO NOT have more power than a regular cop and they DO NOT have the power work without a search warrent and they CAN NOT violate your rights.  They do want you to think that and many people do which in theory gives them buffalo rights to do illegal searches that become legal when you submit to them.

Clint, I have also heard that from a state trooper friend of mine. He says the CPO’s are the only police in Illinois that have the power to cross anyone’s property without a warrant. I’ve heard of stories when the local police don’t have time for a warrant, they rely on the help of a CPO to barge in. I was told they have more power that any police in Illinois. You may want to check into that deeper.

Allow me to cut through some of the ignorance, and clear the confusion.
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1 -  YES the the CPOs in IL have MORE power than other law enforcement officials.  NO they do not need a search warrant like other law enforcement officials.  (can you imagine trying to obtain a search warrant every time you needed to walk on to private property to check a hunter!?) And one of the reasons for this, is because the evidence they are looking for (carcasses / weapons / etc) can be quickly disposed of before a warrant can be obtained.
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2 -  CPOs have MORE training than regular law enforcement officials.  (the example you gave was of a WISCONSIN CPO.  not IL)  Regardless of how many years of Law Enforcement experience you have prior, you must Still go through their 3 month STATE POLICE academy, and THEN their 3 month CPO academy.  It is 26 weeks of total training. 
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3 -  Treehugger, although your situation was handled poorly in my opinion..  What you were doing was illegal (shining) and Im sure he was expecting you to have a weapon in the vehicle, trying to spotlight / road hunt (since that is what they are looking for) which is why he tore apart your car.  Again, it was handled poorly by the CPO in my opinion, but from an officer safety standpoint he was justified. (for the most part)

Now, I think we should all give a little credit to the CPOs out there who ARE doing their job.  Of course there are a few bad apples / slugs, as there are in ANY profession… but considering the resources they are afforded, most are doing a heck of a job out there, with little help from the State, and especially the Judicial system.
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Which brings me to my main point.  The problem is the JUDICIAL SYSTEM.
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Example :  Hunting without a valid permit is a Class B Misdemeanor.  A Class B Misdemeanor in IL is punishable from 1-60 days in jail and/or a fine UP TO $1500.  (Minimum fine is $75)  Problem is, the states attorney decides what to prosecute, and the Judge determines the fine amount. Not the CPO.
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And it depends on what district you are in, and the court’s opinions on conservation.  Some are very Pro-conservation… others could care less. 
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Its like the guy caught with a gram of marijuana in Cook Co may not even face prosecution, while the guy caught with a gram of Marijuana in Dupage Co. will have the book thrown at him!!
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Reform needs to come from the Judicial level.  We need to let them know that crimes against conservation IS A BIG DEAL!!!
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CPOs have a very, very difficult job out there, that doesnt end once the arrest is made.  So please guys, lets give these guys some credit!

Marc, i did check it… with a retired capt for them who was in charge of several counties.  I was told that CPO’s seem to be able to use this fear because most people believe this and can get inside easier because of this popular belief.  Can they cross your property without a warrent?  I believe so.  Can they walk into your house without one?  NO. Not without permission from you. Here is another thing many people dont understand.  If you are hunting on a property line and shoot a deer and you want to track and the owner wont let you track on him.  The warden CANT go remove that deer and give it to you.  He can go and make sure you are hunting legally though even if you own the land without your permission. 

here is an exact quote for the general job description as a game warden.
“In the United States, most game wardens work for regional departments of fish and game. As sworn peace officers, they should be treated exactly like regular law enforcement by citizens. For citizens, the abilities of a game warden can be confusing; some people are under the mistaken impression that game wardens can search without a warrant, for example. In fact, game wardens are subject to the same laws which govern other law enforcement officials, which include protections from unlawful search and seizure.”

Bottom line.  Rights are rights and NO ONE can take them away from you.

Hear, hear.

Clint, I’m aware of the “deer crossing property line” example and you are correct. I’m not refering to a citezen’s right be taken away either, I’m refering to property lines without a warrant. A CPO can barge into your property without any warrant needed, that’s all. They have to ask or gain permission from no one. Other than that, they’re basically state troopers.

If CPO’s had more authority, then I suggest all officers become CPO’s.  Due process(or whatever it is) rules as Clint states.

I have to believe it all come down to probable cause.  That opens a lot of options for any officer. 

You use your lights to shine a field, you earn the suspicion from a CPO.  Have no permit and have blood on you, well I bet your property gets searched. 

If a CPO is wearing camo on opening weekend of gun hunting, he’s truly an idiot or tempting fate.

Marc, Dont quote me on this because im near as sure but i dont state police drug task force people need permission or a warrant to look for canibus or meth labs on acreage type property. My friend is one and i seen him walk by a stand i was hunting looking for a meth lab without a warrant.  And yes conservation officers can search for game violations on land without a warrant.  I was only referring to dwellings.  Sorry if i was mixed up.

Clint :  Yes, of “Unreasonable Search as Seizures”.  Which means, NO, they cannot walk down the street, going house to house barging in doors.  Nobody has the authority to do that.
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However, a CPO can enter on to anyones property, at any time, to check compliance with all conservation ordinances. (A power only held to them)
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And once there, if there is PROBABLY CAUSE to believe a crime has been / is being / or is about to be committed, they have the authority to increase the scope of the search. (a power held by all law enforcement officials)

I’m not sure of all of the details either Clint. My nephew’s an Illinois State Trooper and we had this discussion not to long ago. I think the important thing to remember is that they can walk on anyone’s property for any reason whatsoever. Once on a property, they can find “probable cause” for entering a dwelling if needed. That may be a different story and a different set of circumstances, if so, I wouldn’t know. Anyway, in my opinion, they don’t get paid enough. An acqaintence of mind, is a CPO and a really nice guy and he told me that he’ll never walk into the woods during the hunting season for fear of getting shot. He states that he’ll use other methods to get the same results, like meeting a person at their vehicle, etc. These guys really take some serious risks!

WOW, Bobba Down and I must have posted the same message at the same time!

yeah, i agree with the pay! most people they see have guns and arent happy to see them!

Haha yea, Marc, Id say were on the same page!
And youre right, the CPOs dont get paid enough for the risks they take.  I forget the statistic, but they are like 4-5 times more likely to be attacked than any other law enforcement official.
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Which is why I dont understand why we are still arguing about the job the CPO is doing, and his authority. They are the only ones protecting our sport for us.
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We need to be talking about how the Judicial System is destroying our sport!!

illinoisbonecollector i agree with proper habitat and water source. that is prolly the reason the deer go to your property all i am saying is just the deer may be on your property they are yours to hunt legally during season no one else’s.  but they dont have tags on their ears saying i belong to so and so dont shoot me im not yours.  as far as poachers go they can kill deer out of season or take more bucks than supposed to so i think it is only far for us to take our own actions against them since the horseshit state isnt!

Murdy :  Although I would support an increase in minimum fines, (would certainly help a lot of the fence-sitting prosecutors) but the ONLY way to correct the problem is to get all prosecutors across the board on the same page about conservation crimes.
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They will always have discretion. They can choose to simply not prosecute a case. ESPECIALLY if they feel the punishment outweighs the crime. 
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There was a new judge here in IL, who heard a case on a poacher, who snuck on to private property and poached a monster buck.  The judge threw the case out because “THERE ARE TOO MANY DEER AROUND” and said they would throw out EVERY case of a deer poached on private property, for the same reason. But Dont worry.  That Judge didnt make it very long in that district

Any police officer within his jurisdiction can enter into woods or fields while in the performance of his duties without a warrant. This is called the “Open fields doctrine”. CPO can check hunters, drug cops can look for meth labs, deputies can look for stolen property thrown in the creek. This has been upheld time and time again by the courts. CPO’s like all other police officers need a warrant which is based upon probable cause to enter any residence. The only “special” search powers that CPO’s have are listed under the Wildlife Code (and repeated in the Fish Code) under (520 ILCS 5/1.19). The idea that CPO’s have “more power” than any other cop is due to the fact that they are buy statute empowered to enforce some rules and regulations that other cops do not, and the fact that many of them are also Deputy Federal Fish and Wildlife Officers and thus enforce federal law (some drug cops have a similar arrangement with DEA when they are working with them to get cross-deputized)

In all fairness to the IDNR, their budget documents show that they estimated that they needed 179 people in their law enforcement division, the legislature authorized money for 168 people, and the IDNR actual has 170 currently in the law enforcement division.  So I would say, Statewide they are about nine people short in that Division, however, it occurs to me that perhaps they have too many of those personnel tied up in administrative duties in Springfield, and not enough CPO’s out in the field to catch poachers.  In Southern Illinois we are way short-handed in law enforcement.  Some of the “game wardens” down here handle three or four large counties each. It would be physically impossible to catch any poachers with that much territory to patrol.  In my estimation, they rely on their “poaching hot-line” too much for leads. People are reluctant to turn in poachers, because they are fearful of retaliation from the criminal element in a small community. If you want to catch “professional” poachers you need to do some undercover “sting” operations, and those are time consuming and expensive.  Many of the Western States and Indian Reservations have much more severe laws regarding poaching big game animals.  It is very common for those States and Reservations to seize the poacher’s vehicles, equipment, campers, guns, and bows, if used in the poaching incident.  If found guilty, the poachers do not get their stuff back, since it was used in commission of the crime it stands forfeit to the State and sold at auction to raise money for the enforcement divisions.  If they want it back, they can put in a bid (usually from jail.) The fines and civil penalties are much more severe as well. Civil penalties of $1,500/deer on top of the fines, jail time, and loss of license priviledges are typical.  Go on line and check out what a set of “booner” deer antlers sell for on e-bay and you will get an idea of how severe the poaching problem is in the United States today.

Like the author of the article, I’m not against the “good old boy” popping a deer to feed his family type poaching, but this “out of control” poaching has to stop! We really do need to revise our game laws and consider limiting the Judges’ descretion in sentencing some of these violators.  The case of the Tennessee attorney who took several nice bucks in Illinois a few years ago, illegally, and was let off with just a wrist slap, should have been the rallying call for something to be done about the laws.  People should not have to take the law into their own hands in order to see justice done.

Bobba….“handled poorly?”  A slight understatement.  Ever have a gun in your neck?  The was my first time.  Scared the living hell out of me.  Looking at deer with headlights is net really shining.  I wasn’t parked sideways in the road shining.  I do understand him checking me out as I stated.  But this clown tore the carpet out of my truck, threw everything in the road asked me for receipts on everything I had in the truck.  This was abuse.  Check for illegal game or guns, but don’t tear my truck apart.  It also pisses me off that they can trespass and ruin a perfectly legal hunt just because they want to check me.  How would you like being pulled over just to see if you had a driver’s license?

I do have a lot of respect for the work CPO’s do, but this guy left a real bad taste in my mouth.  A couple years after that incident, I was checking in a gun deer at the State Park and he gave me all kinds of trouble again.  I shot the deer at last light with my then 7 year old daughter.  When we went home to get the ATV, it had two flats so it took awhile to get the deer out.  When we did get the deer out, we drove to the state park only to find out it was closed….so I left a note on their door.  When I came back the next morning to register the deer with my proud daughter, he asked when it was shot and I explained that I shot it yesterday but didn’t get to check station on time so I left a note.  He then went off on me in front of everyone, including my young daughter, telling me what I did was illegal and that he was thinking about arresting there on the spot.  This freaked both me and my daughter out…as well as others around me.  He then explained that he’d give me a break this time.  I tried everything I could to be legal and always do.  This guy took everything I had told my daughter about people in uniform (good things) and threw it all out the window.  I know, get over it already.  I am over it, but I don’t think these guys should have the amount of power they have.  I purchase a deer permit from the state then the state ruins my deer hunt?  I see guys all the time on the side of the road by their trucks, we all do…check us there.  Leave my private property alone unless you have probably cause.  Real probable cause, not some trumped up excuse to get on my land.

ClintHarvey-
Sorry to rain on your parade but you are absolutely wrong in your uninformed assumption about CPOs. A CPO can walk in the middle of your property if they want. They don’t even have to have a reason. They have absolute authority over all property, public and private.  They can knock on your door and ask to look in your freezer without a warrant. They can come into your house and check your gun cabinet. They can do just about whatever the heck they want, and they have LEGAL RIGHT to do it.
They have much more power than a state trooper or any other figure in law enforcement.

You are wrong…... and really, you have always been wrong. I’m just glad some people on here other than me corrected your major mistake.

As for cpos powers read your wildlife codes and your hunting licence your agreeing to allow CPOs
to come into your property including your home with out warents,basically your sighning your rights away when you sighn your hunting licence!!!

I think that the real problem is getting the courts to take a wildlife violation serious. I’m not sure they look at them as a big deal and they should. The money that they could generate off of these idiots (that none of us like) is unreal.
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We all know how to read and we all know the rules (especially trespassing and poaching) those are pretty much open and shut, fine them hard. Hitting people in the wallet always hurts!

lung, me and several other people have quoted legal code.  You just like to argue.

lungbuster and derhunterone:

A CPO can walk in the middle of your property if they want. They don’t even have to have a reason. (TRUE- BUT THAT IS ANY POLICE OFFICER- NOT JUST CPO’S) They have absolute authority over all property, public and private. (FALSE)  They can knock on your door and ask to look in your freezer without a warrant. ( TRUE, THE KEY WORD IS ASK- YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO, AGAIN THIS IS NOT JUST CPOS’S THEY CAN ASK TO LOOK IN YOUR FREEZER AND A DRUG COP CAN KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR AND ASK TO LOOK IN YOUR HOUSE FOR YOUR DRUG STASH- IN BOTH CASES YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO AND THEY MAY NOT ENTER) They can come into your house and check your gun cabinet. (FALSE- ENTRY INTO YOUR HOUSE WITHOUT THEM ASKING AND YOU SAYING YES- ABSENT THAT THEY MUST HAVE A SEARCH WARRANT SIGNED BY A JUDGE THAT IS BASED UPON PROBABLE CAUSE THAT SAYS THAT SOMETHING ILLEGAL IS LIKELY TO BE FOUND THERE).They can do just about whatever the heck they want, and they have LEGAL RIGHT to do it. (FALSE- THEY ARE BOUND BY THE SAME LEGAL STANDARDS AS ANY POLICE OFFICER)
They have much more power than a state trooper or any other figure in law enforcement. (FALSE- THEY MAY ENFORCE A LARGER VARIETY OF LAWS SUCH AS ENFORCEING FEDERAL LAWS ALONG WITH THE SAME STATE LAWS THE TROOPER ENFORCES- BUT THE AUTHORIZATION TO ENFORCE A LAW DOES NOT EQUATE TO MORE POWER- AN EXAMPLE OF THIS WOULD BE ORDINANCES PASSED BY SMALL TOWNS- ONLY THE TOWN MARSHALL OR COP GETS TO ENFORCE PODUNK’S (population 112) ORDINANCE AGAINST LEAVEING AN OLD PICKUP ON THE FRONT PORCH. NOW THAT TOWN MARSHALL ENFORCES A RULE HERE THAT NO ONE ELSE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT GETS TO ENFORCE (PLUS HE ENFORCES ILLINOIS LAW LIKE THE CPO OR TROOPER) THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE TOWN MARSHALL HAS MORE POWER.

Colonel,

Good info. Reading Lung’s post reminded me of the Nazis regime.  Were not there yet.