Proposed lead ban creating a stir

3 problems I see…
1.) She’s from Chicago.
2.) She’s a Democrat.
3.) She’s a friend of HSUS.
The lyin sac can jump in the lake for all I care…....

I’ll bet if we all got together and didn’t buy fishing and hunting license, duck stamps, deer tags, habitat stamps and every other thing the state wants for us too get so we can hunt, fish ,trap. For just one year you see how fast they would forget about lead sinkers. Big Brother just keeps taking.

Is it to much to ask our elected officials to actually think of the ramifications of bills they propose, taxes they raise, budgets, they pass before they actually write something. I am tired of them taking lets throw crap against the wall and see what sticks approach. I guess responsibility and accountability is a novel concept to those in the political arena.

Why is Sen. Steans only consulting with the Illinois Smallmouth Alliance ? She should meet with the other organizations (i.e… Illini Muskie Alliance, Walleye clubs; bass clubs; salmon clubs, etc..).

DDT & other commercial pesticides did more damage to the bird population before same was outlawed by Congress. The predator birds (eagles, hawks, etc…) were decimated by DDT and it took many years for these bird populations to rebound back.

this is definately going to influence my decision at the polls next time,if anyone else endorses this,you’re out too.we use ounce and above on the river jigging for walleye in heavy current.they’re almost a buck a piece ,not to mention sinkers below the dam.will our kids even be able to hunt and fish their lifetimes?i doubt it

How are any of the alternatives any better than lead:

Tin (Sn) Long-term effects are: Depressions, Liver damage, Malfunctioning of immune systems, Chromosomal damage, Shortage of red blood cells, Brain damage (causing anger, sleeping disorders, forgetfulness and headaches).  It also weighs 1/2 of what lead does so double the size of your sinkers…
Bismuth (Bi) Inhalation: POISON. May be a nuisance dust causing respiratory irritation. May cause foul breath, metallic taste and gingivitis. Ingestion: POISON. May cause nausea, loss of appetite and weight, malaise, albuminuria, diarrhea, skin reactions, stomatitis, headache, fever, sleeplessness, depression, rheumatic pain and a black line may form on gums in the mouth due to deposition of bismuth sulphide. Skin: May cause irritation. Eyes: May cause irritation.  Ingestion: May affect the function of the liver and the kidneys. May cause anemia, black line may form on gums and ulcerative stomatitis. Skin: May cause dermatitis. Eyes: No chronic health effects recorded.
Tungsten (W) Acute health effects: Irritating to the skin and eyes on contact. Inhalation will cause irritation to the lungs and mucus membrane. Irritation to the eyes will cause watering and redness. Reddening, scaling, and itching are characteristics of skin inflammation. Follow safe industrial hygiene practices and always wear protective equipment when handling this compound.

Here is Lead (Pb) for comparison:

Lead can cause several unwanted effects, such as:
- Disruption of the biosynthesis of haemoglobin and anaemia
- A rise in blood pressure
- Kidney damage
- Miscarriages and subtle abortions
- Disruption of nervous systems
- Brain damage
- Declined fertility of men through sperm damage
- Diminished learning abilities of children
- Behavioural disruptions of children, such as aggression, impulsive behavior and hyperactivity

I found this information at http://www.lenntech.com/periodic-chart.htm

“we use ounce and above on the river jigging for walleye in heavy current”
If it makes you sleep any easier, Bass, as the bill is written, lead sinkers and jigs above one ounce are exempt from the ban.  Apparently too big for waterfowl to swallow.

State Senator Steans needs to go after the real problems in Illinois, like unveling all the corruption in politics, and earn her money by fixing that part of the equation.  Let the experts decide whats impacting fishing by anglers and outdoors people, such as biologists, and college professors.  Just an idea!  Here is another idea, why don’t Senator Steans look into the oil spill by Caterpillar, that dumped somewhere between 6k gallons and 65k gallons of used oil products in the River up north?  That way she could tell her kids who fish with her, 3 times a year, that she’s all over the problem.

Possible Solutions
1) take care of lead posioning problem in Chicago first—everyone shooting one another. 
2) Cecede Chicago with its own politicians so they quit polluting the rest of the state.
3) more realistic call your representatives and voice your opinion, tell your friends, family and call early and often.

When will the crap end?

There are alot of lure companies in Illinois that use lead in their products. There would be alot of jobs lost and companies shut down if lead was banned. I think that this is a point Ms. Steens doesnt realize, since she has a coushy state job she doesnt care about people losing jobs, it is the fact that lead kills loons and Illinois has a large population??? I for one dont want to spend $5 bucks on a tungsten bass jig! Everyone needs to speak up on this issue, think about it, a couple dead loons or a couple hundred jobs, which would you rather have?

“There are alot of lure companies in Illinois that use lead in their products. There would be alot of jobs lost and companies shut down if lead was banned.”
The ban, even as Steens wrote it and before it is altered/amended, does not apply to lures or tackle generally.  It does not even apply to all jigs or sinkers.  As written, it applies to jigs and sinkers of one ounce or less.  Three states have bans that apply to one-half ounce or less, and this bill can be amended similarly.  I don’t see the tremendous burden to us or the economy that every one is talking about.  What I do see is an opportunity to seize an issue, take a stand on an environmental issue, give credibility to sportsmen’s claims that we are the true environmetalists, take that issue away from the antis, and develop some political capitol with middle America to use when the antis come for our guns or try to ban hunting.  Fighting this ban will, I think, be a gift to the antis, who could then say, “yeah, sportsmen claim to be pro environment, but they fought like hell for the right to throw lead into waterways just so they could save a few dollars.”  That’s the way this will be perceived.

Yeah Jeff2020….lets join in with the antis in thier quest to ban lead so we dont look bad to the public….great idea….lets ban fishing as a whole right now so we dont look bad, after all thats what the antis want as an end result. It’s starting with lead jigs and weights….it will not end there. Why dont you just turn in your guns now and get it over with, after all you dont want to look bad in the publics eye when the antis claim lead bullets are polluting the land…....people need to wake up. There are allot more pressing issues that need attention rather than trying to ban lead. Political chimps get away with trying to pass bills like this garabage because of people like you…..wake up.

Way to go Ronbo. My thoughts exactly thats just what they want us to do.Just think not only with conseration but what the government has taking from us in the last 20 years and telling us what we can and can’t do. Lead sinkers today guns tomorrow. I will bet the founding fathers are turning over in there graves. The only chance we have is at the poles and vote But if we don’t stand up for our rights it’s over man.

uh- jeff most of the jigs and weights we use are under 1 oz.. It is simple there is little affect on the wildlife! How many people do you see fishing a backwater mud flatt where ducks sift through the mud? zero!

Well said Ronbo! Banning lead sinkers will lead to banning lead shot!

It’s not jsut about “looking bad.”  It’s about developing a voting block that is large enough to ensure the future of hunting and fishing.  If you could explain how defeating this ban will help us resist restrictions on hunting or firearms in the future, I might agree.  But all I’ve heard is “this will not end here.”  I agree; it won’t.  I believe the future of hunting and fishing is to wrap them up in one big package that includes environmentalism, drawing more people onto our side, and having enough votes when the time comes. We can, and should, go to the polls and vote.  But, I’ve got news for you, this is a demcocracy and we’re a minority and I’m pretty sure the other side knows the get out the vote playbook too. The proof is all the things “the government has taking from us in the last 20 years and telling us what we can and can’t do.”  Yeah, we need to stand up, but we also need to increase our numbers (or numbers of sympathizers).  To do that, we need to pick our battles, and we need to be conerned with our image.  So, go ahead and take a hard line, I hope it works, I hope I’ve overestimated the threat from those that would do away with hunting and fishing, and I hope we have the numbers to win in the long run alone.

and, uh - bassnbud, you were pointing out the economic impact on companies that make lures, I was merely pointing out that the ban would not apply to lures.

Jeff2020…..there is a place for those like you….it’s called France.

I always suspect I’m winning an argument when the other side can do nothing but call names.  Nevertheless, Ronbo, I ask you, seriously, do you think all we need to do is lobby our representatives a little?  If that’s all it takes, why so much worry about the antis?  If not, what’s your plan, since you don’t think we need to reach out to non-hunters?  There’s a lot of people in Chicago.  How do we insure the future of hunting?  I’m not trying to pick an argument with you, I honestly would like to know how else we can win in the long term without appealing to more people?

Your winning nothing but friendship with groups like HSUS and PETA with your talk of joining them in thier battles instead of fighting them with facts….but hey, as long as we dont look bad it’s OK, right? We need to stand together as a group and not cave to every stupid idea that comes out of Chicago for starters. Education is a great thing….more should be brought to the publics attention. Common sense goes along ways when spoken to people who are on the fence or do not know the truth behind things. Thats a start…not fighting battles so we dont look bad is a bad idea no matter how you look at it….unless your blind.

I will admit I am more Republican than Democrat on most issues. The problem with bothe sides is the one issue voting, and neither side is willing to compromise on anything. I hunt, fish, camp, 4 wheel, shoot for fun, all the things a good Republican does. The problem is, I work for a living, hold a union job, and feel everybody has certain rights that our government should have no control over, so voting Republican is not an option. I have no problem with banning lead shot for hunting or lead weights for fishing. Lead is poisoning our environment and WE are to blame. The more we can remove by choice, the better. We shouldn’t wait and be forced to do something that makes so much sense. The only thing I ask is that corporate america doesn’t seize the opportunity to rake the hunters and fishermen over the coals with outragous costs on alternative methods for shot and weight. We can easily compromise, and it will be a lot easier if the price is right. However, I’m quite sure the corporate goons of america will not see it that way. It has nothing to do with anybody being democrat or republican. It has everything to do with doing what is right for the environment, preserving the nature WE hunt and fish in, preserving the game WE pursue, and making the ban on lead fair for all parties involved. Just my 2 cents on the subject. I’m prepared for the backlash.

1st, you do not compromise for the sake of pollitical expediency when there is not a scientifically documented problem here in Illinois. To my knowledge there are no studies that show that lead based tackle harms the waterbird populations in this state. I have already pointed out that what few studies have been done in other states have been flawed due to the sample methods.

2nd, to those that think that alternative tackle will go down in price once the ban is in place. That may be the case if it was a NATIONWIDE ban. Illinois would be just another niche market with very high prices. When the first years of the ban on lead shot for waterfowl hunting were implemented, it was only in certain areas of the country. It was a niche market. The steel shot alternatives very very expensive and performance was crap. It was not until the nationwide ban that prices went down and performace was improved.

You don’t ban things without proof just because someone thinks they COULD be a problem. When you allow this mindset, anything and everything meets the criteria and is subject to ban. The wildlife resources of this country face hundreds of more issues that do have an impact, that is where the focus should be. Why then does HSUS make this one of their national issues? Sleep with the dogs and you are bound to get fleas.

It’s always some smart person telling us what they think is right and what should be done about it. And most of them don’t have a lick of common sense. Global Warming didn’t the ice caps melt 10,000 years ago? A kid eating lead paint that is bad but a lead sinker or a jig in water maybe not really that bad. But what the goverment would like is to have a study for a million or so with our tax dollars to see.Like every study there will Pro & Con.But Colonel I’m with you lets find out before we start passing more laws. We damm sure have enought already. Next it will be safety belts on motor cycles

Colonel, if you require absolute proof before selecting a course, that’s not compromise at all, its simply that someone has conclusively proven their case and there’s nothing left to argue about.  Compromise occurs when reasonable minds could differ.  As you point out, there is some data, albeit arguably flawed, supporting the notion that small lead weights harm waterfowl.  Most people with only a passing interest in this debate will not take the time to put the study into it that you have.  Most people recognize lead as a poison that’s been widely banned in other applications.  Some people will think, best act now, better safe than sorry, buying non-toxic sinkers is not that big of a burden anyway.  I’m not saying I agree with them; I’m saying we need to take such viewpoints into account.  “Never compromise” is a dangerous manifesto destined to leave us isolated.  I agree we should never compromise on core issues but when the burdens are low and the potential benefits are high, we should at least consider it. 
This is not about making friends with HSUS or PETA, as Ronbo suggests.  It’s about claiming an issue for our own that we pay lip service to all the time (and taking it away from our opponents).  Most if not all major hunting organizations make conservation an integral part of their programs.  We are the true environmentalists.  It’s an issue we can use to make inroads into middle America and appeal to the “fence sitters.”  It is about trying to keep these “fence sitters” from becoming friends of HSUS and PETA.  Let’s not concede this issue to the radical left.

Jeff2020…yeah, another brilliant idea….“It’s about claiming an issue for our own”. How about us as hunters and sportsman just ban all ways of killing or trapping animals…that way we can claim it as “our own” idea and take it away from the antis… Like the saying goes….you cant fix stupid. And No, you’ve won nothing yet again….other than a pointy hat. Now go sit in the corner.

Very, clever.  But I still haven’t heard how you intend to insure that we have enough people on the sides to draw the necessary votes to protect hunting and fishing.  Taking a statement to a ridiculous extreme does not answer anything.

Jeff….no matter how hard you try to come to another conclusion….1+1=2….deal with it. There has been a bunch of answers and feedback to all of your questions and ideas. Go back and read what has been posted. You sound like a Chicago politician. You want to sit down with the enemy and compromise with thier agenda so we dont look bad. Guess what…we look bad to the enemy no matter what we do or dont do. As mentioned in previous posts here….was there ever a study on how many birds have died here in IL. due to lead weights? Then why a ban on them? I’d bet there are a thousand more things being dumped into the waterways that have been proven to kill birds far greater than a handfull of lead weights. Why not go after those pollutants instead of lead weights? Enough with the BS laws…we have enough already.

I’ve stated my case.  We disagree.  God bless and no hard feelings.

It’s OK…we may disagree on this topic but I’d still have a beer with ya and talk about the outdoors.

This was my point exactly colonel. Why must we wait until we are given proof that lead shot and weight are causing problems when we know damn good and well lead DOES cause problems. What if water tainted with lead causes some type of cancer in children. How would any of us feel if a study were to prove such a case? We’ve all seen what leaded gasoline did to the air we breath. The fact is, there are millions of cases of cancer reported each year and we allegedly have no clue what the cause is. I firmly believe the study has already been done. It’s most likely being kept quiet so there isn’t milions of lawsuits filed against american business. Make no mistake, lead is bad, very bad. We can work out a compromise now, or remain narrow minded and get caught with an outright ban. I’ll not offer any more opinions on this site. I’m an educated person with the mental capacity to approach a topic without bias, and I don’t care much for the name calling.

Jeff and signal- I understand where you guys are coming from and respect your views, I just hate bad science when it comes to wildlife. I am usually into compromise where possible, this time however considering all the factors, my instincts say bad move. Thus when your instincts are saying to compromise, both of us need to prevent their own gut pains.

It appears Sen. Steans has backed off her original proposal.
I received an e-mail from her on 2-25 stating she has decided to pursue a lead use educational program. She sent the same letter to a local manufacturer of crappie jigs. I have forwarded that letter to Jeff Lampe.
Evidently the pressure sportsman and the fishing industry has put on her in the last 2 weeks did some good. She was not clear on exactly how she was going to proceed and stopped short of stating she would withdraw the bill.
If you are against this ban being implemented at this time contact her and let her know. Whether you are in favor of or against her proposal, as written, the ban could have a huge negative impact on fishing lures far beyond weights and jigs.

So the Sen. is having second thoughts.Good for her.Im glad she is at least going to reconsider.What are we going to do now boys if she withdraws the bill we will have to find another subject we can have a opinion on. Maybe there is some middle ground we can all agree. Hope so and it’s been a interesting deabte so far.