Budget worries for DNR
Despite sunny skies and biting fish this week at Rend Lake Resort, budget concerns cast a cloud over a gathering of outdoor writers and Department of Natural Resources staffers.
Though Gov. Pat Quinn’s proposed budget would actually increase the DNR allocation, there is growing concern that the General Assembly will not approve “new revenue streams.”
In the DNR realm that includes a variety of fee increases, some of which require General Assembly approval to be enacted.
If that approval is not forthcoming, Quinn’s office is saying that the impact on DNR could include the closing of 60 state parks, a lay-off of one-third of frontline park staff and closing state museums.
Is this another calculated move in the ongoing chess game that is the state budget? Time will tell and we’ll have more on this subject later in the week.
Until then, here’s the text of a budget-related speech by DNR director Marc Miller, delivered Monday night to the gathered outdoor writers and DNR staffers.
Marc Miller speech to outdoor writers gathering
It is good to be here at Rend Lake – where outdoor recreation is featured front and center.
One of our goals in the months ahead is to make sure outdoor recreation is front and center for more and more of our citizens.
In talking about the future of wildlife and fisheries management – we must acknowledge the need to preserve and expand access to hunting and fishing opportunities.
We know that in a state in which 95 percent of the land is privately owned we need cooperation from private landowners in everything we do.
We need to find new and creative ways of finding places for hunters, anglers, wildlife watchers, and other outdoor recreation enthusiasts to enjoy those activities.
And those new and creative ways will only work if we have a solvent and sustainable Department of Natural Resources in a leadership role.
We need adequate funding – from all sources – to manage what we have.
And we need adequate and reliable funding to be able to even start discussing the kinds of access programs that many of you have advocated for.
We want to encourage our citizens and visitors to Illinois to spend time at places like Rend Lake for all the recreational opportunities available here.
But we also need to make sure these places are well managed and well maintained.
We need to make sure visitors have a good experience when they’re here and at any of our sites.
Outdoor recreation has a huge economic impact.
Recreational tourism is big business here in southern Illinois and in many places in our state.
Hunting and fishing have a $2.1 billion annual impact in Illinois.
Hunting and fishing support 22,000 jobs in Illinois.
Add another $1.1 billion in economic impact from wildlife watching.
Our state parks attract 44 million visitors a year – a $790 million dollar annual economic impact – and support 8,500 jobs all over the state.
Our state recreational surveys point to our traditional favorites.
Fishing and hunting are on the list of favorite activities.
Illinois residents also list walking, hiking, biking, camping, and picnicking among their favorite activities.
Outdoor recreation is big business – and it’s good for our physical and mental well-being.
The “good for us” part is why we are making such a big deal about getting more of our youth involved in outdoor recreation.
The health benefits of outdoor recreation are enormous.
That is important when you consider 30 percent of adults and 16 percent of kids are obese.
Getting more kids outside can help slow or reverse the trend toward a less-healthy Illinois.
Getting kids outside can also be good for the environment and for the economy.
The May edition of Education Leadership magazine focused on what young people know about the environment.
The report looked at how students’ knowledge of the environment affects everything…from clean water and air to their search for jobs in the new economy.
The research included surveys of high school students on their awareness of environmental issues.
The Education Leadership report found that a typical high school student is aware of environmental issues, but perhaps not how they relate to them and their future (and our future).
Students have heard about and talked about climate change and carbon footprints and recycling.
But even kids in the survey who claimed to be sensitive to environmental issues have very little knowledge of the natural world.
The researchers asked high school students to name one songbird they could identify by simply listening for the bird’s song. The most frequent response: None.
Bird watchers and wildlife watchers are among our best conservationists. Are we raising a generation that can’t tell a robin from a swallow – or a duck from a goose?
Who will recognize when a migratory bird arrives in Illinois two weeks later than they do today because of the effects of climate change?
Many of you have heard about or have read Richard Louv’s book “Last Child in the Woods.”
Louv’s makes the case for getting kids outside…to cure what he calls Nature-Deficit Disorder.
Even those kids that are online or texting their friends 20 hours a day can be good stewards of the environment if we reach them at a young enough age.
We’re trying – by offering school teachers help in providing easy and fun ways to connect their students with the outdoors.
We need to do more of that.
We cannot let the current trend of teaching to the mandated standardized test push aside environmental and nature education.
We need to expand our assistance to those teachers who want to take their kids outside.
We need to encourage programs like the one coordinated by the Illinois Conservation Foundation that provides donated funds for outdoor field trips.
We need to work with schools to beef up their outdoor offerings.
Research shows that at-risk youth who spend time in outdoor education programs have measureable increases in mastery of science course work – not to mention higher self-esteem and fewer behavior issues in class.
A study in Canada found that schools that incorporate more outdoors activities for their students saw benefits including better student health, better nutritional habits, and students who fare better in classroom course work.
The Education Leadership report found that more and more studies show exposing kids to nature helps them score better on tests, expands their cognitive abilities, builds self-confidence, and reduces health-related problems.
Focusing on kids is one element of our push to put outdoor recreation and the services were offer at the DNR front and center.
We need to revive and strengthen out constituent relationships.
Many of you participated in the old Conservation Congress process.
While it may not look the same, I am working with our Natural Resources Advisory Board on ways to re-establish the kinds of constituent links the DNR once built through the Conservation Congress.
Some of the best ideas and initiatives in Natural Resources in recent years have come from our constituents.
We need their ideas and their support – now more than ever.
Many of our supporters in recent weeks have stepped forward and asked how they can help as we work to rebuild the DNR and restore public faith in the DNR.
We have been encouraged by the support for our proposed budget initiatives.
While there has been a lot of talk about budget cuts, we have made the case that the DNR has taken far too many cuts in recent years.
Our budget plan includes some modest fee increases.
No one likes to pay higher fees, but we are committed to using the revenue from higher fees for the purposes intended.
We’ll use a modest parking fee for state parks to manage, operate, and improve state parks.
We’ll use a modest increase in deer permit fees for deer management – and to work for more access for hunters.
We’ll use modest increases in hunting and fishing license fees for wildlife and fisheries purposes.
We believe our constituents will be able to live with some additional costs if we are straight with them on using the added revenue for the intended purposes.
Many of you are aware of suggestions that state general revenue support should be cut by 25 percent and worse in some cases if no “NEW” revenue is found.
Just today…Governor Quinn illustrated the consequences of “inaction” by our state legislature.
If Lawmakers can’t agree on new funding sources then drastic cuts will need to be made through out state Government including the IDNR
Without new revenue…We will be forced to cut $41.5 million dollars from our FY10 budget.
That means closing 60 parks throughout the state and every state owned museum in Illinois.
LET ME BE CLEAR-This plan is NOT supported by Governor Quinn…and it’s NOT supported by me or this agency.
We feel that the responsible and reasonable approach is, at the very least, use the Governor’s proposed budget as a framework for avoiding these kinds of drastic cuts to DNR and other state agencies.
We believe the DNR has taken far more than its share of budget cuts already.
The Blagojevich veto of $19 million in general revenue for DNR last year was just the latest, most severe cut.
The state Historic Preservation Agency, which becomes part of DNR this summer, took a $7.7 million cut in general revenue.
Cutting even more will have dire consequences.
Our Land Management office – the frontline staff in our parks – has lost 215 employees since 2002.
At one of our busiest parks – Illinois Beach – a staff of six is trying to manage a site that had 28 employees in 2002.
And Illinois Beach attracts more than a million visitors a year.
Reductions in Conservation Police will have a big impact on fish and wildlife enforcement – and on public safety.
Reductions in hunting and boating safety and youth education programs will affect public safety and would work against our efforts to get kids outside.
Cuts in general revenue could shut down our state forestry division.
The cuts could shutdown our state tree nurseries – hurting habitat projects on public and private lands.
Cuts in general revenue would also hinder our mine safety program – and our mandated permitting of mine operations, waterway projects, dam safety, and environmental reviews that would impact local economic development projects.
We’re hearing from constituent groups that they want to help us avoid these damaging budget cuts.
They understand our needs.
They don’t like higher fees, but understand we need them.
Many of the good things we hope to do are dependant on adequate, sustainable funding.
I want to encourage those who enjoy the outdoors in Illinois to let us know – and let their legislators know – that the DNR is important to them.
Thanks again for your interest and advocacy for the outdoors and outdoor recreation.
Thanks to you – our efforts at improving outdoor recreation for all Illinois citizens is front and center for your readers and listeners.
Comments :: 
Advertise on Illinois' top outdoors Web site.
RSS
Atom
Without new revenue?We will be forced to cut $41.5 million dollars from our FY10 budget.
That means closing 60 parks throughout the state and every state owned museum in Illinois.
Wait didn’t you just before this statement that We?ll use a modest parking fee for state parks to manage, operate, and improve state parks.
We?ll use a modest increase in deer permit fees for deer management ? and to work for more access for hunters.
We?ll use modest increases in hunting and fishing license fees for wildlife and fisheries purposes.
So my question now is how are you going to expand all these programs when the gov himself is saying or implying that the increases are needed just to keep things open? Sounds like a lot of political double talk to me. You can’t expand if your just staying afloat. Bet the fees go through and parks still get axed or stay in a state of disrepair. Hey here is a suggestion instead of meetings about the next meeting that you will have on what needs to be done at the next meeting, try some action,besides raising fees taxes ect.. Oh and while I hate seeing anyone lose jobs 215 since 2002 isn’t bad considering in central Illinois we have lost over 4000 jobs in the last 6 months, that area is south of I-80 if you want to find it on the map. I would just like to know where the money that opened and maintained these parks before Ryan and Blago is now going, I may not be the brightest person, but I know enough that money does not vanish, it just belongs to some other project.
Hunting & fishing = $2.1 billion generated revenue
Wildlife watching = $1.1 billion generated revenue
State Parks = $790 million generated revenue
What am I missing? Aren’t these state parks and public lands already paid for? What are they doing with all the money generated from our nature reasources?
Just sell more deer permits. Our deer herd is our cash cow isn’t it? OTC NR tags, OTC antlerless permits, OTC LLWS (that would be the late, late winter season). We can just decimate our deer herd in one year. After reading this article I really have “NO FAITH” in our new leadership. I wonder how many taxpayers dollars were spent on this meeting? How about having your meetings at the DNR headquarters? We wonder where all our fees are going. Miller and company wine and dine on our dollar.
illbowhunter, I’m with you with you on the over selling of deer tags, etc. In fact, I really didn’t even need to mention that to you as it’s evident we’ve been on the same page with regard to those issues. I just wanted you to know that Les Davenport and myself addressed some deer related issues to Paul Shelton at the conference, and as you probably guessed, it was responded with a blank (Gomer Pyle) look back towards us. In fact, Les really gave it to him and demanded some answers but again, same old, same old.
...
In all fairness, the DNR didn’t spend a dime on this meeting. John Reilly, the owner of the Rend Lake Resort ate the cost of feeding everyone, giving us a place to sleep, etc. I’m here to tell you that this man REALLY fed us well too! The Franklin county tourism, as I understand it, also picked up a part of it. John Reilly was just able to make it happen.
...
What was really sad is the fact we sat and heard 3 fish biologist give detailed reports for each lake in their region including counter measures, etc. to correct issues. They do a knock-out job with our fisheries in Illinois. I wanted to know why we didn’t get the same treatment for our deer herd? Instead, we just get blank looks.
No single individual, organization, or agency is totally immune to a recession. I just got done reading a different article that some public colleges & universities are forced to increase their tuition/fees by up to 30% just to “stay afloat” in order to provide the same amount of education as they have in years past, not to mention any ideas to expand certain academic departments. All of this due to state budget shortfalls. It’s happening in Illinois and throughout the nation. Our concerns about layoffs, cutbacks, and paying more for no additional benefit are legitimate - but it’s an issue that is not just confined to the state of Illinois.
***
Timing has not worked on the DNR’s side. Blago’s decisions to raid and misappropriate the DNR funds occurred right before or at the beginning of the economy’s downturn (disclaimer: I’m no economist). That hurts - especially if the agency is trying to recover during a recession. Given everything that has happened to the DNR in the past few years, I do see justification for the increased DNR funding allocation. Hopefully the General Assembly sees this too.
oh by the way, george bush wasnt conservative, so you cant argue that we have had conservatives in office the last 8 years and it didnt work.
Marc, the fisheries biologists in this state are a totally different animal, I haven’t met one thats not totally dedicated to quality fishing for this states citizens. You would think that with our state being known for its deer hunting that the same care would be given when it comes to managing “our deer herd” but its not. Our deer herd is the politicians “cash cow”. Need revenue, sell more tags. Thats our policy now and thats a sad fact. The response you received from Shelton is what I would expect. He has “NO” answers only dumbfounded looks and idiotic responses. I would rather have our deer herd in the hands of a fisheries biologist than a duck biologist’s. Seems they are dedicated to their work and not focused on the politics. Glad Les gave it to him. Looks like he gave it to some gar while he was down there too.
Great slang Miller keep talking out of the side of your mouth. You want kids involved in the outdoors and more opportunities for kids. Well I guess 2 days for the youth deer season in your opinion is enough then!!! That LWS that you are backed into a corner with why not just move it up and let the kids have 2 weeks to knock off a few of those does that your wanting killed. Hold on a second it may just interfere with all of the outfitter influence that is in this politically screwed up state. It all comes down to the almighty dollar and while their are a few deer left that money will determine it all!!! A HUGE CAN OF WORMS HAS JUST BEEN OPENED.. “focusing on kids is one element of our push to put outdoor recreation and the services we offer at the DNR front and center” WHAT A MASTERPIECE THIS WHOLE ARTICLE IS!!!
“The Blagojevich veto of $19 million in general revenue for DNR last year was just the latest, most severe cut.”
Yea he was no good, but you can’t blame him for continued bad decissions. Remember when the state parks all closed and Quinn came to the rescue. Well it looks like we are headed right back to where we were with one difference… we’ll be paying more for a hunting/fishing license, deer permit, waterfowl permit, parking, and all the other stuff.
the same old Illicago. ..... the leaky faucet that is our budget is soaking the carpet of crooked politicians controlled by the big city crooks…..
same old story….... time for Northern Illinois and a Southern Illinois 51 states….. not a problem
Same old song and dance. I truly belive the boys in Springfield think we are all stupid. I did read they are dropping the casino tax, now that’s a good thing. They are doing that so they have excuse too tax and rise the fees on the backs of the guy thats just trying to make it.But just maybe Obama will bail us out then our kids and grand kids will foot the bill. So it looks like hunting, fishing, camping and the outdoors we all love might have too take a back seat but don’t despair when those taxes and new fees start rollin in everything goin be alright.
Doom and gloom talk to make all the fee increases slightly more palatable. Close 60 State parks, 2 weeks after giving over 20 million dollars to fix up the pavilions in the Chicago suburbs so the gang bangers can deal crack in better facilities. This speech reminds me of one of Obama’s teleprompter speeches last week where he says our countries debt is unsustainable after planning to spend 4 trillion or so over the next year. Miller sucks plain and simple. A yes man who tried to fool everyone with a fish a deer picture.
In regards to 2 states in IL, I agree. Just put up a giant concrete wall around Chicago, and let them all kill each other and rob each other blind. If we could find a way to give IL an enema and remove Chicago we would be all so much better off.
another load of bull…what a shame…
Well I am glad to see that most can see thru this shell game. Does anybody even know what the mission of the IDNR is anymore? I’ve read here and in PJS everybody rippin on Blago, but just maybe he was just doing what needed to be done. Our politicians(includes DNR) for years have been selling us out (for the pork vote) to the tree hugging, granola chewing,spandex wearing, binocular peeping special interest groups.
What happened to hunting and fishing?
Message to the politicians, no new taxes, you have squandered, mismanaged the peoples monies long enough for your personal gain(votes).When your house of cards falls even the blind will see how irresponsible and self serving you have become.
Yeah, I’m getting pretty thirsty for a glass of tea!
Reddog, I agree with ya man, a picture of you with a fish and a deer doesn’t make you a sportsmen. It makes you a politician. Remember when Kerry had his picture taken with the goose? He did it to gain the confidence of the redneck voters who don’t give a damn about the ways of the world. Well you saw how far that picture got him. Its a smoke and mirrors game with our political pawns here in Illinois. The future of our natural resources lies in the hands of our elected politicians and not our IDNR. Thats a sad fact….. Flood, Grandberg, Miller…. they all fall in the same category as far as I am concerned. “Yes Men”. The confidence of the people has been lost unless your a fool who still beleives “all is right on the Illinois front” and that Miller and Quinn are here to save the day.
“Raise most of our fees & tags”
“Continue killing more & more deer”
Are the 2 biggest messages that have came out of our new IDNR.
Sure they temporally opened back up a few closed parks, BUT now the cry is that we MAY have to close 50 more parks !!! ???????
Deerhunters have been & are continuing to beg louder & louder, for our IDNR to start addressing some of the quality aspect of deer management.
Has Miller & Comp made one suggestion about what they might do to Help insure that a few more bucks live long enough to grow a rack.
NOPE.
Some people asked them to move the late winter season up.
Did they ??? NOPE !!
It is still where it always was, BUT the IDNR did like the idea of killing MORE antlerless deer sooner, so they ADDED another earlier antlerless season & put it on a holiday & a weekend so hopefully ANOTHER 8,000 does & 2,000 button bucks will be killed out of our already DECLINING IL deerherd..
Now the IDNR admits that Turkey numbers are down, because of poor hatches the last two wet springs. So what is the IDNR looking into & suggesting they might do ????? Get ride of ALL spring turkey quotas, extend turkey hunting hours to all day, over the counter permits, state wide permits, ect….
I think we are beginning to see the end of any kind sound management, in this state & we are starting to see a glimpse of the future of how the IDNR will sell any & everything if it save a dime, earn a penny more &/OR saves the IDNR any labor expense.
======================================
IF they are going to raise our fees & tags, we are going to expect MORE from our IDNR.
We are no longer going to continue to accept less & less out of our IDNR !!!
I really hope they don’t get this through so they are called on their bluff about closing parks. Bottom line Quin only reopened the parks because the state would have faced some hefty fees from the federal government repaying grant money. “Sorry this is just anouther fleecing of the public.In all fairness, the DNR didn?t spend a dime on this meeting. John Reilly, the owner of the Rend Lake Resort ate the cost of feeding everyone, giving us a place to sleep, etc. I?m here to tell you that this man REALLY fed us well too! The Franklin county tourism, as I understand it, also picked up a part of it”. I wonder how much extra money will find its way down there now, sounds like the makings of a pay to play scenario to me. Although I’m sure the DNR did pay some for the meeting unless the DNR staffers were there off the clock enjoying a free vacation. All that meeting was is so people could try and report back how we should all feel warm and fuzzy inside about being ripped off, on that note I’m glad this wasn’t reported in that context here. Nice to see unbiased reporting for a change.
These outdoor writer events are sponsored at different locations annually. The owners, like John Reilly, foot the bill because they know less people would attend if they had to pay for it. Now, they do it for a reason but I don’t believe it’s a pay to play deal. They informed us that they want us to enjoy their resorts so we can write about them in our articles, thus bringing them in more business. It worked! Rend Lake is a great place to be and so is the resort. With less people hunting these days, these people are hurting also and need to be exposed a bit more to drive traffic towards them. The DNR staff are salaried, so they get paid no matter where they work. Putting things into perspective is important so the issues that count don’t get washed into the wrong areas.
...
We sorted out the smoke screens from the genuine. The smoke screens came from Shelton, not John Reilly. The fish biologist were dedicated, articulate and focused. The deer biologist was…oops, we don’t have one! I mean Shelton seemed complacent and down right withdrawn. At one point he asked Les Davenport “Is there a question in here somewhere”? (or something to the sort, after Les was informing him of the separate issues the western side of the state endure). That’s the type of attitude we get when all we want is the same dedication of management for the deer herd as the fish get.
Capt Bill, thanks for the nightmares after that link.
You could have thousands of state parks and they could be the greatest parks in the world.The only thing is if the average person can not afford to use them how long would they last.I do know this if I fish or hunt this year with all the increase in fees it will have to be illegal, gee I never thought I would ever say that.You know I live in Illinois I could GIVE A TINKERS DAM whatthe others states do
If our so called leaders here in IL. would just leave 100% of the money that is supose to go to the DNR and KEEP IT IN the DNR….we wouldnt have a problem.
Of course Rend Lake is a nice place, maybe you can let em know that with the unemployment rate being at 9.4 percent here in the state you can pretty much bet the fee increases the DNR wants is going to mean even less people using the resort. As far as salary for the DNR staff you are correct, but they also get compensation for driving to location. So yeah lets keep things in perspective, I find it funny the hosting resort also happens to be on the preferred lodging list for the state. Not saying that means anything, but it is odd. The bottom line let the DNR show hard facts, (not posh weekend gatherings), of exactly what is going out, where its going and what is coming in. How is that for perspective? Thats the main issue here, people want some accountability for where their money is going after all the scandal we have seen in the past. I’ve yet to see one outdoor writer even attempt to write about that, all I’ve seen at best is regurgitating the rhetoric they have been told and at worse I’ve even see some sugar coating of the rhetoric. I’ve yet to see operating costs per park and revenue generated by parks. Seems like something an outdoors writer looking for facts at a convention to report why more fees are needed should ask to me.
I like to call an apple an apple and an orange and orange. The fact that the DNR will show hard facts will only happen when they want it to happen. Actually, they will show only the facts they want the public to see. Outdoor writers can only expose so much, because much of the data is coming from the DNR itself. As far as “I’ve yet to see one outdoor writer even attempt to write about that, all I’ve seen at best is regurgitating the rhetoric they have been told and at worse I’ve even see some sugar coating of the rhetoric”. Really? Where have you been for the last 6 months when we’ve had these heated discussions about our deer permit fees, revenue generated by NR tags, lack of biologists because of lack of revenue, etc? Some of us outdoor writers are being asked to these “posh weekend gatherings” so that we WILL STOP the public criticism of how the DNR spends its money.
...
Questions were asked at the conference, believe me, but the answers didn’t follow. Many feel the DNR fees are OK as long as we get our system back on track and many feel it’s never going to happen. We have limited control and one reason is because the support we hear on forums like this one, don’t show up at the governor’s desk (or the directors). Instead, it’s directed to us. You want answers, you can do what we’ve been doing and see if you get any farther. Email, phone or write to the very agencies with a request for the information you are seeking and when you get it, please forward it to us!
...
I don’t have a problem staying at a nice place owned by an individual who footed the bill hoping for some exposure. Again, he paid for it, not the DNR. It’s cheap advertisement for him, (well maybe not that cheap). It’s also a rare opportunity to get the latest information from the agency itself. If some outdoor writers take a different angle of the fees, I suggest you target their opinions. We’re in a tough situation. We know the DNR is broke. We know the state is broke. We know the country is broke. Fees are needed, but not really sure what fee increases are needed because we don’t have true operating costs. We have some people who are dedicated employees for the DNR and some who could care less for our deer herd, etc. One thing for sure, we need answers but not from the resort owners. We need them from our DNR and we haven’t received many in the last decade. All outdoor writers shouldn’t be lumped into the same category. You have had many dedicated outdoor writers working really hard behind the scenes for the purpose of saving Illinois’s DNR, our deer herd, etc. facing much resistance. In turn, according to the DNR surveys, the Illinois hunters have favored many of the changes the DNR has made. I think the term “Uphill battle” is an understatement.
Hey if they have to close some parks that might be a good thing. No one to cut the grass trim the bushes and in time more habitat more game. Just thnik you could drive up let the dog out and go out in any direction you want with out some state guy telling you where you can go and what time you have too get back. Hows that for a idea. BuI don’t think the stste would go for that they will find the money to keep the parks open. You don’t have to guess where.
Get your wallets out boys!
Will do I am filling a freedom of information request today and as far as some outdoors writers being invited to stop the critics of the DNR is my point exactly. Rather than any action that will get something done the DNR would rather wage a PR campaign, thinking if the outdoors writers are on board with the plan the rest of us will follow, as you have stated the answers to the questions are not there. Why? Do they not know? Don’t they want to tell? How can anyone feel ok about fee increases if the answers to the questions are not following? Since its obvious to me the DNR employees do monitor boards such as these they know what people are saying and thinking, yet all we get is smoke and mirrors.
I wish you the best in your endeavor to uncover any data related to the DNR’s budget! It’s a tough place to be here in Illinois. Deep down inside, despite how negative articles always seem, it’s hard to let our government officials know that we really want to support our DNR and the regulations/fees that follow but it is an extremely difficult task to find the direction of those monetary solutions, especially when we as deer hunters (the number one source of hunting revenue) are treated like we know nothing with regard to managing our herd. It’s also difficult when they aren’t forthcoming in their objectives and there has been so much waste/corruption in the past. Someone asked for transparency not to long ago and we haven’t seen too much of it lately with the deer herd regulations, would it be fair to say that we won’t see it with the budget issues? Not sure.
...
With a new director in office, I can make this statement with regard to the current situation. On a personal note, I’ve met Marc Miller several times and think he is a decent and likable man. I know he has a great challenge ahead, so I understand his pressure. On a professional note, I hope he opens his ears to the cries of the outdoorsmen/women of Illinois and proves to us that he will have no problem replacing the individuals in his administration who refuse to do their job for the Illinois tax payer. We need quality, quantity, a balanced budget, exposure or transparency along with the seizure of corruption in our DNR. If he does his job to the best of his ability, we’ll all know sooner or later. Until then, I’ll write them as I see them!
The number one monetary solution is leave the money in the DNR funds alone, stop pulling them to fund this or pay that. I’m sure Mr. Miller is a great guy in person and is more than capable stabilizing the DNR. The question that remains is will he, keep in mind when you are all invited to these events its to sell you on the plan not to give you any thing real, this is why there is little transparency and no answers to questions. Common sense points to either there is a level of incompetence and they really do not know the answers or they just don’t want to say. Bottom line something is being hid. Let me make a future prediction because I’m sure these fees will go through. 1. We will not see any real improvement in service or quality in our parks.2. Park usage will see a drop in visitors and I’m sure there will also be a drop in license sold. 3. Number two means revenue will not be as high so of course in another year or two we will here about how we need to raise the fees yet again or lose more parks. Just a thought but how do private campgrounds stay afloat yet our state parks with camping have been on the chopping block, seems to me they would be self sustaining unless there is some mismanagement taking place. Never trust a salesman that can’t answer all your questions no matter how nice they are. The DNR wants us to lighten up, well I say to them its time to step up, no more smoke and mirrors time to get some answers and sell us with answers not run arounds. Doesn’t seem like much to ask to me.
cougs, unfortunately I think your predictions will hold true. I also agree with you that the money should stay in the DNR…period. Now lets look at the other questions you addressed: “either there is a level of incompetence and they really do not know the answers or they just don’t want to say”. To answer the incompetence statement, try to figure this out. Our fish biologist are right on the money. In fact, the entire state is run with competent, knowledgeable fish biologist who address issues annually! Ask them a question, you’ll get a focused answer backed by years of detailed data. So competence is not an issue with our fisheries. Now look at the second part of your question that refers to knowing the answers and refraining from saying what is true. Again, with the fisheries, the answers are there and they have no problem laying out their game plan. Now direct those statements towards the deer management. Competence IS AN ISSUE and what data they do know, they’ll refuse to release it you unless you dig it out of them. In fact, it’s easier to talk monetary issues rather than deer management. Marc Miller must understand that we need competent and hard working deer biologists with answers and a game plan for all parts of the state!
...
Yeah, salesmen and nice guys can be one in the same but I can tell you this with some certainty that although all outdoor writers are not on the same page with what’s happening within the DNR, not everyone is swallowing what is being fed to them either. Professional courtesy is given to everyone at these events both from the DNR staff and the writers but make no mistake, issues are being discussed and there are some uncomfortable moments. All in all, if things are going to change, we will need some answers and were just not getting the answers we need as of yet. The only thing Marc Miller has going for him now is the fact that he is in his infancy with the DNR and some people are giving him some time to work things out. Others won’t be so patient. We need some positive things to happen now if he wants the support of many!
...
On a final note, there are so, so, so many things they could have done that wouldn’t have cost the DNR a penny but would have given them so much support with us but they wouldn’t listen. For that reason alone fuels the idea that some kind of hidden agenda is going on behind the scenes. We’ll never get anywhere by being shut out and nether will their agenda. Things must change or hunting as we knew it will never be the same.
I can’t agree with you more Marc and not once on these forums have ever heard a negative about our fisheries. My hats off to them and again to Mr. Miller who obviously reads these posts, take some lessons from the fish biologists, come clean with us. You wanna stem the critics why not work with these guys running sites such as this, post the facts on the revenue vs operating costs of the parks. Money made from permits (deer, turkey ect..) and from hunting, fishing,(comercial as well) Minnow dealers, Trapping and any other revenue made from state land under the DNR control and any tax money from ammo, federal funding ect..You wanna sell the product at least give us the specs, not the same threats as Blago. You have nothing to lose and a lot of support to gain.
In the last few months I have been one of the most vocal critics of the IDNR’s management of the Illinois deer herd. And, I too, attended the infamous meeting in Springfield where some of us “critics” were asked how we felt about the deer management program and asked for suggestions to make it better. Director Miller made it abundantly clear in that meeting that his number one
priority as Director of IDNR was to make available
more opportunities for more people to go hunting. We all know the way to have accomplished that, would have been to support the September doe season.
Marc Anthony wrote a great article on September hunts in other States and laid out a terrific
case for a September doe harvest season for Illinois. The IDNR deer biologists said they could not find any data on September hunts. Obviously,they never tried.
Marc Miller has other things that are
distracting him right now from his deer management goals. Perhaps for us to come down on him and
the department right now is not great timing. Quinn
is trying to get him approved by the State Senate. At the same time they are trying to get a budget passed through an uncooperative General Assembly. And needless to say in that budget request they (IDNR) are going for the largest increase
in license increases and increased fees in history. Yeah, Director Miller has a lot on his mind right now.
In the recent PSO article about the “EARN A BUCK” program in Wisconsin, deer hunters went so far as to go around the Department and go to the politicians to “straighten” out their Department of Natural Resources. You know what, I am still bothered by that statement. Why is that? Could it be that I know in my heart that those deer managers up in Wisconsin know more than the everyday joe blow deer hunter about what’s best for the management of the Wisconsin deer herd? Then I look at what at least some of you guys are proposing regarding our own IDNR here. I think that with the right contacts we could probably apply enough political pressure to effect a change in how the IDNR runs the Illinois deer management program. And, I am quite sure, if we applied enough of that
same political pressure, we certainly could effect a
change in the personnel of the Deer Management Section within the Department. However, just because
we can do a thing,doesn’t make it follow that we should do such a thing. Think about what
you are proposing…...managing the State’s
Natural Resources (its deer herd) by strictly political quirks by a small minority of the hunting
public. Isn’t that what we all said we didn’t like?
Right now, the new Director, Mark Miller, needs our
support for getting his program up and running. He and Quinn are not responsible for the disgraceful
mess that Blagojevich left this State in. Miller is not responsible for the deplorable condition and low morale in the IDNR, and he is certainly not responsible for the fact that those old biologists
in the Deer Management Section of the Department of Natural Resources have never tried a new idea
in the thirty years that most have been there.
Marc Miller really needs us to be real supportive on this one, this time, even though it hurts. Most of us have went on record here and stated that our long term goal for the deer management program is to leave a legacy of deer hunting for our children’s children. We need to unite in support of Miller and the IDNR on this one. Now is not the time, in my opinion, to abandon the Natural Resources of this State to the State Legislators and their political allies, who would abuse it for their own political agendas. We need to support these funding goals and follow-up and see that they do what they say they’re going to use the money for.
Yours in conservation, Dan “BigD” Coen
I’m sick and tired of hearing all the negatives and rock throwing at an agency that once, not too many years ago, stood near the top of Conservation agencies in the country. Those rocks mostly coming from the uninformed wearing blinders who don’t see the picture right in front of them.
The good times came about because of two Directors in a row, Mark Frech and Brent Manning who cared about our resources and cared about the average guy out there utilizing those resources. Frech was a political appointee but an avid outdoorsman and strong environmental supporter. Manning was a degreed biologist and environmentalist. It was Brent’s visionary approach to management of the DOC/DNR and it’s funding that allowed us to enjoy our resources so cheap for so long. If you want to blame someone blame him for being the best Director the DOC/DNR ever had. He spoiled all of us.
To set the record straight I was one of Manning’s biggest critics and had more than one battle with him. In the end he always did the right thing and I see those same traits in Marc Miller.
The initiatives Manning brought forward would have insured Illinois’ place at the top in country if
left untouched. Sure he made mistakes and he will readily admit to that. Marc miller will make some mistakes too. It’s impossible for someone in his position to not make mistakes. The only people in positions similar to Marc Miller’s who don’t make mistakes are those who do nothing like those we have had as IDNR Director in recent years.
The proposed fee increases are not a mistake.
Marc Miller has one huge advantage going for him Brent Manning did not. Brent had not one political bone in his body. He learned very quickly how the system worked. Marcs already there.
Marc Miller came into this mess because he wanted to. He doesn’t even have a pension issue involved. He thought he could make a difference and he will, given a chance, and a lot of support from all of us. Miller’s only been Director for 4 months!
We have lived too cheap for too long. Just take your kid to the movie and compare that price to a $25 deer permit or the price for parking for an entire year in any state park you choose, on the same $25. A fee that will not only impact hunters and fisherman but also non-consumptive users who have been totally free since time began. This initiative is long overdue.
The Corps of Engineers has been charging parking fees for years and I didn’t hear one negative word when that fee was imposed and then increased.
Sure it’s going to be hard on some people, particularly those with kids who want to learn about the outdoors, whatever their venue. I for one would buy a parking pass for someone truly in need. What if each of us took that attitude and each just helped out one person that needed it in order for them and their families to enjoy the resources we do. That’s not charity it’s sharing.
The bottom line is we either pay more now or pay much much more later. All of you out there shooting a nearly dead horse aren’t helping your own cause.
Gradually implementing the fees is not a viable option without giving something else up. We can not allow one more step backwards.
I sat right next to Jeff Lampe and not ten feet from Marc Miller when he presented his doomsday scenario. There was not a sound in the room made up of 38 writers and broadcasters and 5 or 6 staff from the IDNR. None of us had ever heard anything even close to what Miller conveyed that night.
The only laughter that night was when our Jeff Lampe blurted out in jest “you’re not going to close 60 state parks.” I think he’d had a couple of “pops” after asparagus hunting all afternoon.
All of us knew this message was not for us but for us to pass on to you and for you in turn to let your legislatures know how you feel whether you are for or against the fees. With the exception of a few new Senators and Representatives the legislative branch is very much aware of the statewide clamor that came from the closing of 11 parks.
What I read in Millers budget is nothing but an attempt to get us back to where we were a few years ago. It’s not going to get it back to where we were in 2001 nor will it make everything right. That will only come with the support of everyone of us for years to come. The once proud DNR wasn’t built in a day or a year. It took many years and tons of support from the DNR constituents (you and me) to get it where it was.
Right now it’s like rebuilding your home after the tornado went through - without insurance.
For those that throw Miller in with the rest of the political hacks we have had in the Directors chair you are dead wrong and I say it again - you are dead wrong. When you have sat and looked in his eyes and heard him talk about the dire situation he and the department are in and the vision of what it will take to never allow this to happen again you’ll become a believer. Some of those initiatives are already in the works and will benefit every one of us. Those initiatives will surface in the near future.
Miller’s political background is a huge plus for all of us. He knows the system and how it works and he knows the players and how they work. That affords him the ability to get things done a novice would not have a chance with. He’s already utilized that knowledge more than once.
His obvious close relationship with Quinn is another huge plus.
For those that don’t know me I won’t hesitate to take either of them on when I feel they are on the wrong track. In fact I’ve done that already.
I’ve personally known several Directors over a period of 30 years dealing with the DOC/DNR and I have never looked in any of their eyes and seen more dedication and sincere concern for the agency, the people who utilize it and all of it’s resources.
Miller does not want these fee increases but there is no other viable solution. If you think you have a better idea let him know. I have yet to hear anything close to a solution from anyone other than Miller.
When you criticize Miller and the INDR without a better idea you need to take up tennis or golf and forget about the IDNR and their issues or better yet just keep your mouth shut until you are better educated on the issue.
If you don’t know how a government budget works you need to educate yourself before proposing solutions that aren’t feasible or criticizing expenditures that are dedicated. In other words a huge portion of the IDNR budget is governed by both state and federal law and cannot be used for day to day operations. General Revenue Funds are what is at issue and that is the money Miller is fighting for. GRF pays salaries, buys gas, clears the clogged sewer etc. etc.
Marc Miller and Gov. Quinn both have a monumental tasks in front of them. I’m not a Democrat saying this - Pat Quinn has been an advocate for the people of Illinois since I first heard of him. From day one in 2003 he took on Blago at every turn. Sure he’s a politician and he’s human and he too will make mistakes. Both he and Miller are trying to right hundreds of wrongs perpetuated by Quinn’s predecessor and our legislatures. None of those wrongs can be recalled and that money is gone. Now we have to deal with what‘s left.
Times have changed and it’s time our attitudes changed too.
As for those that want to persist in your criticism I know a couple of good real estate agents in Missouri that would welcome your business.
Where were all of you while Blago was dismantling the IDNR?
Oh yes don’t forget the legislatures who stood by and even assisted Blago. I’ll bet some of the loudest of you even voted for Blago or those legislatures. You all forget it was the legislative branch that voted to sweep the funds from IDNR accounts. They did that after repeated warnings from the Fed’s as well as many of us who knew what the consequences would be. One good thing Blago did was to leave those funds untouched after they were swept realizing a huge mistake had been made. If he had encumbered the funds and they were already spent Quinn would not have been able to return them to the IDNR accounts.
Why waste your time getting balance sheets on the IDNR? Do you think there aren’t people out there watching those expenditures and income. Again, lack of knowledge of how government budgets work leads to negative responses in your posts.
A lot of the budget related negative posts come from the same 10 or 15 of you who have been tearing up the deer program. In this new budget are more personnel for the deer program, a new turkey biologist we all have been screaming for and a host of other improvements. Without the money none of those things will happen.
Let all of these initiatives Miller and Quinn have put forth fail and you will then have something to scream about.
Fire away as I know some of you who are totally ignorant of the facts will. When you do, at least make some sense rather than utilizing name calling foul mouths and shallow innuendos to back up your point….......BRAD BROWN
Wow, I can’t believe I read all of that, but I did.
On that whole looking in the eyes thing, I wish the CIA would have had you over at Abu Ghraib. Why you could have just look those terrorist in the eyes and read their minds and we now wouldn’t be wasting time and money on this waterboarding business.
Thank a vet today and if you are a vet, thank you and have a good day.
I’m so glad you get warm and fuzzy when you look deep into his eyes. I’m sorry some of you still want to do things the old Illinois way of lets pay the money now and when nothing happenens with it we will complain about how crooked things are. Why get budget reports? hmm well because I’m curious and have a right to know how about that? Or maybe because its makes no sense to me that parks that offer things such as camping, boat rentals, and other supplies are not turning a profit. Or perhaps the biggest reason is looking into the eyes of someone trying to sell me something doesn’t make me feel warm and fuzzy. Where was I when Blago did his stuff hmmm, well I don’t recall ever supporting him not even the first time he ran. Only director for 4 months ok so I wonder what happens if my bosses are not impressed with me after 4 months? And yes the tax payers are his boss, so often thats forgotten in America today. So I think getting a little bit of negative feed back is minor. I don’t feel sorry for him, like you said he knew what he was getting into and there are things that can be done to make people feel better about this besides waging a PR campaign with a doom and gloom scenario. What you may ask? How about some facts not writers or fanboys saying how much they believe the soul of the man is good. Have you even read the posts about the people in the deer program? Funny I guess you can write but not comprehend maybe you can work for the DNR, let me sum it up for ya. Whats being said is the people involved in the deer program are clueless, so adding more people will not get anything done, it needs to be cleaned out from the start and rebuilt. So if all us dumb rednecks are so ingnorant to the facts where are yours? I don’t see one fact or figure in there, but I bet you can tell us the color of Mr. Millers eyes. My point is we have a right to see the numbers dispute that one if you can.
Hey BRAD BROWN, you got some built up tension man. you shouldn’t have gotten yourself emotionally attached to Mr Millers eye color. and FYI, if QUINN has been such a HUGE ADVOCATE FOR THE PEOPLE OF ILLINOIS…..then tell me why ohhhh why would he propose THE BIGGEST INCOME TAX INCREASE ON TAXPAYERS IN THE HISTORY OF THE STATE??????? It sounds to me that Quinn is wanting to get into the pocketbooks of all of us first and foremost.
And i honestly can’t belive you are trying to tell someone they are stupid and wasting their time by wanting to look at IDNR budget sheets because “someone else already does”. That sure has worked for us great in the past right??? burueacrats relying on their own to get the job done. That is like asking a prosecuting attorney to also be the defense attorney. Accountability resides with the taxpayer dude, not some other government agency. im just wondering, are millers eyes hazel or more greenish??
Brad Brad Brad Do I have some swamp land for you.Yeah maybe some of us just don’t understand or see the big picture. But some of us are not as ingnorant as you might think. Some of us have a little common sense. One thing we know we keep paying for more and getting less. Some will go along with that but not all. Some question.
My combined huting and fishing lisence and habitat stamp cost me around 20 bucks, and my deer tags and spring and fall turkey tags are all free.
...
Someone point me to the end of the complaint line cause I’m paying too damn much and I wanna complain about it.
Show me positive changes that are coming out of Miller’s office and I will support him, until then he is going to be under scrutiny by all. He has a full plate? So do alot of other Illinoisians that are trying to make ends meet and his boss is getting ready to try and tax the crap out of us. We all may not be as educated as some and some may understand politics better than others.
I have been very vocal on the management of our deer herd. To say we need more biologists to solve this situation we are in is a farce. We need biologits that are willling to listen and if certain individuals think they are listening then I must be getting misinformed by some of the deer gurus of Illinois.
Just wondering how much they plan on making from all the fee increases, no one wants to write about that for some reason. Lets just say they get 5 dollars from the 44 million a year that visit our parks, that’s 220 million right there. Looking at the DNR projected operating budget for 2010 of roughly 274 million recommended budget, 68 million comes from the grf and yes Brad license fees can pay salaries I quote from the budget” Propose increases to the fishing and hunting
license fees. Additional funds will allow the
agency to hire critical positions in fish and wildlife
programs to expand the State?s recreational
opportunities. One of these opportunities will
include an upland game/turkey biologist to
address the growing sport of turkey hunting in
Illinois. Other critical positions will be hired as
funds become available.” I also find it interesting that in a time when unemployment is at a high, the state has been ran broke, that this budget has over 400,000 in raises for state officers alone. Take a look for yourselves.http://budget.illinois.gov/
Now I doubt all 44 million people will come in separate cars, but its an example, just like I’m sure not everyone will buy a year pass some will some won’t, would be nice if we could get an idea of what they are projecting to raise.
COUGS - here is the projection - In the first year of implementation it is $3million. In the second year (FY11 - two years out), the amount is $20 million. We have to wait to see the results.
YOUR ALL P*$$^NG IN THE WIND BITCHING BACK AND FORTH WITH EACH OTHER YOU NEED TO BITCH TO THE PEOPLE WHO WE ALL HAVE THE POWER TO VOTE OUT IF THEY SCREW UP!
Thanks Brad this is the kind of stuff we are wanting to know, I think most people will respond better to this when we are being talked to and not feeling like we are being sold on the idea with scare tatics, 3 million seems like a conservative number to me, but like you said time will tell. This makes me wonder if they also happen to mention a percentage of how many sales on licenses and permits they plan on losing. I have seen online studies in the past that have been done on this matter and they have shown price increases will drive some people off and the one I looked at was done on a 2 dollar increase. I also found an interesting article on one of the parks that was closed last time http://www.rrstar.com/multimedia/x1577098012/State-senator-questions-state-park-closings Seems. like some of our concerns about some parks being self sustaining are correct. I wonder if this park is on the chopping block again, how many more are like it and selfsustain, yet are on the chopping block? Most people would also like to know whats going to keep the funds generated in the DNR and not going back to the GRF. I’m sure this is why the DNR is in its current state, so what being done to stop that from happening and no throwing more money at it won’t fix it. Changes need to be made on how things are done. To Mr. Miller, I know you or your employees read these and if you want the opposition and peoples perception of the DNR to change then instead of talking at us, why not talk to us. Not one question on here has been a matter of national security, so why are facts and answers so hard to come by? I’m sure these increases will go through, its politics pure and simple, and I know I keep reading about support and banding together as people who enjoy the outdoors. So I’ll call you on that one practice what you preach, be a man and inform us, not hide behind a group of outdoors writers with a doom and gloom speach. Actually answer some of the questions you see here, yeah you don’t have to and I’m sure you won’t sway everyone, but at least you may earn some respect for yourself and the DNR. People do not have to agree to have some respect for each other.
Here is the link to get the info http://www.comptroller.state.il.us/ You can look up expenses and revenue by department and fund, everyone that has put a post up here or even looked at the article should take a look.
Cougs, I wanted to thank you for the links. things are pretty hectic right now and I haven’t had time to wade into them but wanted to thank you for your effort.
No problem, it does take a little time to wade through it all. Perhaps the biggest question I’m left with is yes the DNR has a hole in the budget, but most of the cuts being mentioned are programs that are self sustaining all ready.
Next entry: Chicago Sun-Times fishing report 5-20-09
Previous entry: Tales from the Timber: World Slam
Log Out